What is the Holy Grail of hand mades ????

[Fire1981]

Game on ! I know the Bird Cage is one of them. Tom Reed had one with a yellow cage and a green base. I think there's one call a Naked Razor. So ! Let's go 🔥

RAR

[Chad G.]

LINK ::   https://rarest.org/collectibles/most-expensive-marbles-ever-sold

LINK ::  https://rarest.org/stuff/marbles

 

Birdcage came in 8th

 

[YasudaCollector]

Man! Has anybody ever seen one of the Chinese birdcage marbles? 

 

It almost reminds me of the glass used in some older Chinese paperweights (the sandy color base glass with bright primary color designs). 

[Alan]

11 hours ago, YasudaCollector said:

Man! Has anybody ever seen one of the Chinese birdcage marbles? 

 

It almost reminds me of the glass used in some older Chinese paperweights (the sandy color base glass with bright primary color designs). 

At one time, Bill Cokenhauer had two for sale at Ohio and other shows.  I think they sold after quite a while and later Bill had a third one.  IMO they are far more paperweights than they are marbles.  Kids marbles aren't made in such large sizes.  The technique is also paperweight.

[YasudaCollector]

Wow! That's quite a few considering how rare they are. What would they have been used for though? 🤔 I've heard the Chinese paperweight makers also made aquarium ornaments too. 

[Ric]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:51 PM, YasudaCollector said:

. . . I've heard the Chinese paperweight makers also made aquarium ornaments too. 

I have seen Chinese "Birds in Fire Tree" sulfide figures in glass objects of various shapes that were probably made as paperweights or aquarium ornaments. I have also seen "marbles" that had been made by cutting and grinding those objects into spheres. In addition, I have seen some spheres that I think may have actually been produced as marbles, since they have no flat spot and show a pontil much like a typical German sulfide. Although, I suppose they too could have been shaped from a much more common paperweight/aquarium piece by a skilled glass worker.

Here are examples of what I am referring to. This sphere was most certainly ground from another object. I have only seen one sphere with a pontil for sale in the past 25 years or so and I am still mad at myself for not purchasing it.

 

[Alan]

52 minutes ago, Ric said:

I have seen Chinese "Birds in Fire Tree" sulfide figures in glass objects of various shapes that were probably made as paperweights or aquarium ornaments. I have also seen "marbles" that had been made by cutting and grinding those objects into spheres. In addition, I have seen some spheres that I think may have actually been produced as marbles, since they have no flat spot and show a pontil much like a typical German sulfide. Although, I suppose they too could have been shaped from a much more common paperweight/aquarium piece by a skilled glass worker.

Here are examples of what I am referring to. This sphere was most certainly ground from another object. I have only seen one sphere with a pontil for sale in the past 25 years or so and I am still mad at myself for not purchasing it.

 

The only way to make a glass piece with that detail is a torch paperweight technique.  All cane attachment points can be cold-worked (polished) away.

Cane-cut marbles are an entirely different method than paperweight technique.

[Ric]

5 minutes ago, Alan said:

The only way to make a glass piece with that detail is a torch paperweight technique.  All cane attachment points can be cold-worked (polished) away.

I appreciate this comment Alan. You should know that I am essentially clueless when it comes to the actual techniques used to make such objects.

Would you please elaborate a little on the "torch paperweight technique"? I imagine it would be used to produce the grass and tree? Just a little more explanation would be very helpful.

One of the things that I find pretty amazing is how the "sulfide" birds are positioned on the branches. I imagine the tree was produced when they were placing the birds, perhaps by using an orange glass rod to push them into the clear gob - sort of like the figures in Germans were placed using a metal rod?

I really have no idea how this was done, any thoughts you could provide would really be appreciated.

[Alan]

I'll start by noting that paperweight technique (aka "lampworking") goes back several centuries when beadmaking started.  Complex paperweight worked started (IIRC) around 1880 using gas and a mouth blowpipe to increase heat. 

Paperweights appeared in the mid-1800s in Venice, and later in France.  Complex designs with very fine craftsmanship appeared in the late 1880s IIRC.  The techniques progressed and some studios turned out incredibly finely detailed work with relatively simple torches.

Paperweight were originally simple glass half-spheres meant to hold down papers in rooms with windows open.  These evolved into decorative art for the home.  Their form could be half-spheres, spheres with flattened bottoms (cold work), animals (I owned a Hedgehog) etc.  Almost any three dimensional that could be imagined could be made - depending on the skill of the artist and the time that had to make it.

Today there are artists like Paul Stankard that create work that is so detailed that its is quite a sight to behold in person.  Even photos of his work are striking:

 

 

 

 

[Ric]

Excellent, Alan. thank you very much. I appreciate the time you took to post this. The Stankard pieces are amazing - the detail is just incredible. So just one more quick question and I promise I'll leave you alone (at least for a while). Would the method used to make German sulfide marbles also be considered a "torch paperweight technique"? My guess is "yes".

[Alan]

2 hours ago, Ric said:

Excellent, Alan. thank you very much. I appreciate the time you took to post this. The Stankard pieces are amazing - the detail is just incredible. So just one more quick question and I promise I'll leave you alone (at least for a while). Would the method used to make German sulfide marbles also be considered a "torch paperweight technique"? My guess is "yes".

Sulphides were a modified cane-based technique based on a singe gather of clear formed into a (roughly) half-sphere.  The kaolin clay figure was pressed into the hot gather, more clear added to form the basis of a (rough) sphere, then the whole mass was trimmed and rounded to form a sphere.  It would have been made in the same studio as cane-cut handmades.

[Ric]

4 hours ago, Alan said:

Sulphides were a modified cane-based technique . . .

Thanks again, Alan! Am I understanding correctly - that canes were used in the production of German sulfides? I always imagined a gob gathered from a furnace.

[Alan]

29 minutes ago, Ric said:

Thanks again, Alan! Am I understanding correctly - that canes were used in the production of German sulfides? I always imagined a gob gathered from a furnace.

It is a small gather from the furnace on the end of a punty, shaped, figure pressed, "gather boy" brings a roughly equal gather to complete the piece.  Then the punty is taken to the same seat that cane cut pieces are worked on, trimmed and rounded, then necked-down from the gather.

[Ric]

2 minutes ago, Alan said:

It is a small gather from the furnace on the end of a punty . . .

Gotcha. Thanks again for taking the time to enlighten me!