Steph

Not sure how many online book repositories there are. One cache of books is the Google Book Search. A lot of their listings aren't online -- you just get a summary and hopefully a library or store where you can find the book -- but a lot of listings are complete. There are some obscure ones. Many governement documents with bland or number intensive or otherwise tedious content. Many with just the slightest mention of the topic you'd be searching for. I am mainly noting them as something to be aware of. I'm going to try not to include too many of those in my list for the near future, though I might bookmark them for myself. Never know. One day you might actually wish you could put your hands on a one paragraph summary of the state of the Thuringian glass marbles industry in 1908, say. 1856 The Marble-workers' Manual, 1856. (other editions also available) A book about working with marble in the big sense but it has a section on toy marbles, starting on p. 192. Here's the source of the teaser in the title of the thread. . . . urinous lixivium 1908 - 1909, discussion of tariffs on marbles I know you'll want to read all 8000+ pages of the 1908 - 1909 Senate report on tariffs. Not! but some of you may be interested in five particular pages about glass marbles. Volume VIII, Appendix. See pages 7881 through 7883. A discussion of pros and cons of tariff increases, circa 1908-1909. The importer Strobel & Wilken argues against increased tariffs. M. F. Christensen & Son argues for an increase. The importer's argument is that the marbles imported are substantially different from those made in the U.S. so there's no real competition. Also, the quantity of glass marbles coming into the U.S. seems to be on the decline, another sign that imports are not a threat. Strobel & Wilken ask that the tariffs on foreign marbles stay the same. Martin Christensen discusses how young the U.S. toy marble and caster ball manufacturing business is. He gives October 1904 as MFC's starting date. He also gives an example of his production costs. He stressed that low wages in other countries allowed importers to purchase foreign marbles at a figure substantially below his costs, making this new industry a textbook example of what protection laws are intended to aid. A substantial increase in tariffs is requested. And then here's a letter from the president of the United States Glass Company of Pittsburg, PA which mentions the new glass marble industry. Schedule B, Earths, Earthenware, and Glassware. See pages 1089 and 1090. ----- I don't know yet whether there is more in that report about marbles, or caster balls, or M.F. Christensen. I haven't made a systematic search yet. I already know there is a potential for a lot of information to be found in other documents using those keywords. Still without searching on purpose, I see a 1913 tariff report with another letter from Martin Christensen, and one written to him from Germany. Lots of details on wages. ----- 1870-something? I've misplaced one I found in December. Yes, another government report but it had a lot of information about German in the 1800's. Stats about regional industries, which of course included marbles. Wages. Cost of living. That sort of thing.

I haven't seen a listing verifying that. The only listing I've found so far says possibly not original. I hoped that someone might know for sure whether the contents changed relatively recently. Quick cost comparison: the price of marbles in the Albright Glass Agates bags was 10 times the price of their undyed clay marbles.

Oops, didn't mean to skip your comment Duffy. I bet you're right. A lot of kids would have been shut out by cost if they needed glass marbles. I think the national tournament was pretty much forced to go to glass in 1942. It seems that Albright (or possibly I should say their successor Ravenna Ceramics?) needed to do something defense-related instead of toys.

That would make sense, Jo. If those are what were found in bags such as these, the box would have been a convenient way to show retailers what to expect. Interesting passage, Terry. The using up old stock idea is something I toyed with before considering a more active trading relationship between the two companies. That passage explains why Christensen might have had old stock on hand.

Transparent and twisty, if not an actual swirl. It's just for fun, right?

Yeah, looks like a match. I wish I knew what "professional" meant there! I just learned that the national tournament required clay mibs as targets during the whole time Christensen was in business. That might have been a good reason to include clays in the assortments. When I first learned of clays in Favorite Assortment boxes, I wondered what the point was. Glass was where it was at, right? So I thought maybe the clay mibs were cheap filler. And maybe they were. But kids who wanted the best prep for tournament play would need them to practice with. I guess using clay mibs as target marbles would have kept Chrissies prettier longer. :-)

I'm kinda excited. I found an Akro ad last night which has given me a bit of a shock. Is it possible that straight out of the gate, Akro made more marble styles than M.F. Christensen? This Akro ad is from the December 1914 Playthings catalog. It might be the first Akro ad with a Clarksburg address. The MFC ad supposedly reflects their line from 1911 through most of 1915. 8 colors for Akro. 6 for MFC. (the nat'l onyx entry covers brown and green) Michael Cohill's MFC book says they introduced their White Onyx on Sept. 12, 1915 in response to competition from Akro. So it sounds as if Akro had a white onyx before MFC. ?? (click to enlarge) . . . . . With all the time and effort Akro had to put into absconding to Clarksburg and trying to develop a working machine which was different enough from MFC's to get them a legally recognized patent, how would they have had time to invent a new marble type? Horace Hill was no expert, so how would he have come up with these things? Did he have expert help? Bonus question: Who would have made the yellows in this Akro box with the Akron address? And when? It doesn't seem as if they were a regular production item of MFC's, but if that's Akro's yellow, then why would it be in an Akron box? Could Hill have taken their yellow output when it was still in the experimental stage? (click to enlarge) Some background for reference if anyone needs it: Primary source is Michael Cohill's, M.F. Christensen and the Perfect Glass Ball Machine. Akro's marble machines were based on designs stolen from MFC by Horace Hill. Akro purchased their first marbles from MFC in 1911. Hill began embezzling from MFC and cooking their books in Feb. 1912. In Sept. 1912 Hill applied for a patent on a marble machine. His application was denied because it was too similar to Christensen's. Though no purchases are recorded after Feb. 1912, Akro continued to have enough MFC marbles to sell until their move to Clarksburg in 1914. Hill's embezzlement was first discovered in February of 1913 when a client wrote to say they'd overpaid but no record of any payment could be found. Hill was allowed to make restitution and stay with the company. His embezzlement continued, again unnoticed. In August 1913 he resigned on good enough terms that he was given a small bonus. He took with him MFC's client list and glass formulas. Unknown to the Christensens, he went to work at Akro, and started scouting for a new location for the company. Clarksburg was chosen for the new factory. Hill finally tweaked Christensen's designs enough to secure his own patent. And Akro Agate was in production by the Fall of 1914. Hill's design was flawed and would have had a high rejection rate but it was close enough to MFC's and it was faster than MFC's. Akro quickly became a serious threat. In Oct. 1914, Martin Christensen discovered that Akro was underbidding him with his best clients. It turns out that MFC still did very well in 1915 but they had to hustle. They lowered prices, gave volume discounts and decided to expand their line. Their first new marble was the White Onyx, which was introduced in September. Martin died in October. His son Charles took the helm. 1916 was a stellar year, with the help of a new Purple Onyx and more incentives to their better customers. MFC still had a worldwide clientele. 1917 looked promising too, until the U.S. entered the war. The war and a harsh winter created a natural gas shortage. MFC had to turn off their furnaces on December 10. No more marbles were made but they had a massive inventory on hand and they continued to fill U.S. orders into 1919. Before 1911, MFC's line had 7 marbles. The style they dropped was the Imperial Jade, a lighter green than the Oriental Jade. They had other types which were made on a limited basis. Some of those weren't marketed. The Moss Agate is one of their rare marbles; it was made throughout the life of the company but in small numbers. The Blood Agate seems to be a variation on the Moss Agate -- also very rare. Their opaque Lavender was produced for only two days: on Nov. 19th and 20th of 1917. Other marbles described as experimental or limited production: translucent bluish green, opaque green Cornelian-like, dark brown onyx, translucent cerulean blue, opaque cerulean blue, clear with Cornelian (oxblood) swirls, clear with translucent cerulean blue swirls, and non-fluorescing opaque yellow. So if MFC sold their opaque yellow, when would that have been?

This box is on the block at Morphy's. It appears to be one which was pictured in an IAMC show report, maybe 3 years ago. Only the lid was shown in the show thread though. Wondering if there is any extra info available about the background of this particular box. Wjhat I know at the moment is general info suggesting an arrangement between Albright and CAC. They were both in Ohio of course. In 1933, Albright was selling 2 color glass agates wholesale in bags of 500 for $1. Also, clay marbles are found together with CAC's in the CAC Favorite Marble Assortment boxes. Pretty sure Albright was the clay marble maker while CAC was in business.

Were any of those marbles in that ad made by Akro yet, or did that reflect an expanded MFC line? In M.F. Christensen and the Perfect Glass Ball Machine, Cohill says Akro had had a successful test of their new (pirated) machines in the fall of 1914. They were able to practically duplicate MFC's marbles. Did they immediately go into production after that test? It sounds as if that was the case, and the competition forced Christensen to make some changes. MFC's pricelist for Jan. 1, 1914 has six types: National Onyx (Brown Onyx and Green Onyx), Royal Blue (Cobalt Blue Onyx), American Cornelian, Persian Turquoise, and Oriental Jade. If I read correctly, that was their line until September 1915, when they introduced their White Onyx. So did Akro really have a White Onyx in 1914 as advertised? Did they beat MFC to it? And what about the Golden Yellow?

Update: From December of 1914 .... this might be the first Clarksburg ad. From a Playthings catalog: (click to enlarge)

Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused about whether the Akros were in the Dumping Sandy, or in another Wolverine toy which came with the Dumping Sandy. It was still fun to read about the marble motion toys. :-)

Neat. Thanks for the inspiration to learn about Wolverine's marble-powered toys.

The prominent crimp looks Imperial to me. Imperials are generally thought to be from China. Here are some of mine. The white based one is thought to be Imperial. It has a lot of aventurine. Some of the others have stereotypical Imperial crimps. Different greens but your green is also right for Imperials. Mine have some clusters of what looks like it should be aventurine. I'm not catching sparkle tonight but the light is bad. (click to enlarge) Here's one from a Master box. Not mine. Supposedly a lot of aventurine though it didn't show up well in the pic. (click) Gratuitous Master photo. If we need a reason, let's say the green one is aventurine. (click)

Thanks for confirming. :-) I told someone Champ seemed to be out of business. I wanted to make sure I hadn't misspoken. Last year when I called the number I found for them it was disconnected. One of two numbers I found today is disconnected. The other has an answering machine but the message doesn't say whose number it is.

I guess we weren't ready for footballs! Nice one anyway!

Any new and/or official info about the status of Champion? Anyone know if they made any marbles in 2006 or later? Thanks.

Sorry Alan. I really messed up the whole holiday card thing. Felicia is the only one who got her Groundhog Day card in advance. Well I hope the rest of you guys enjoy your Groundhog Day cards anyway -- in 2 - 4 days. Did you know that Germans have the same word for marbles and groundhogs? Check it out. Google "murmel". this link might go there

Glad you answered Charles. I bought one on ebay last year. I paid somewhere between $5 and $15 for it. Can't remember. I think I was the only one bidding and I got it for the starting bid from someone who posted his for ID here.

A nice photo spread in a "Pic" magazine from July 1939. At this point Pink apparently still considers the Scripps-Howard tournament to be the national tournament. That's the one he donates a college scholarship to. He is already involved with local tournaments but they might not be named after him yet. (click on links below to enlarge, might need to doubleclick for full size) . . . . http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o151/modularforms/History/PicMagazine_July1939_006.jpg http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o151/modularforms/History/PicMagazine_July1939_001.jpg http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o151/modularforms/History/PicMagazine_July1939_003.jpg http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o151/modularforms/History/PicMagazine_July1939_005.jpg In 1941 a newspaper announcement for Pink's tournament mentions Ruth Lapham, the cutie from the last photo, in order to encourage girls to enter. But according to a Coronet magazine piece in 1946, Pink "goes white" at the thought of girls playing. Marbles had survived for ages, but a girl winning the national title might bring it all down, he says. I'll leave you to analyze the rest of the article ... or just enjoy it.

Thanks Mike. Sorry for the bad advertising there. It was my least favorite too. But it's mine. It was one of the first five mansions offered on ebay. I put bids on all five. That's the only one no one competed for. mica in transparent green in sheet glass form? ah, so the mica isn't just tossed in ... It's pre-coupled with the green glass. That's cool.

That's a whole lot of color !

Not weird at all. The principal players on Lizzy's board have been the harshest voices on other boards, but they use their "inside" voices at her board. It's easy for her board to stay nice. The leadership wouldn't dream of doing or allowing what they themselves did here before they left, and continued to do from time to time since Lou kept the door open and allowed them the privilege of posting. They are always on their best behavior over there. If anyone slips, there is a gentle reminder and that's enough. Everyone posting at Lizzy's board wants it to do well. Very easy to keep things nice that way. Even easier now that the people who were most likely to be bored with the restrictions have Scott's board to go to and release their more mischievous urges. lol You, Derrick, have illustrated how people who play nicely at Lizzy's board sometimes do not show the same consideration here, and even on occasion go out of their way to throw this board off balance. You are the one who posted the link here to Scott's board at his request. I know the link was posted at Lizzy's, but you know it was done with an entirely different motive. No one was inviting Lizzy's membership to a board where Lizzy's board was being trashed. You've shown some ambivalence, sometimes being constructive and only sometimes moaning, but there are people who literally only post here to say that it is going downhill. And some have attempted more direct sabotage. It was that type of damaging behavior Lou alluded to in this part of his message to Galen: Scott was blocked from posting after he hijacked two separate threads to attack Kevin. When Kevin sidestepped the first attack and the thread stayed on topic, Scott renewed his attack in the first thread and started a new one in a second. Later Kevin was suspended for responding here in a particularly unsavory way to horrible things which Scott said over there about him, and about Lou and Sue. I do not know the exact reasons anyone else was blocked. But I know Lou had reasons. It is one thing to disagree about a subject and even to lose one's temper while debating it with passion. It is entirely different to post with a general disdain for the people on the board or maybe even the intent to drag the board down. And no, I never had a general disdain for the people on the board. Someone is going to say it somewhere, but it isn't so. So don't go there. I had general frustration but not general disdain.

However, though I still believe that Lou's decisions weren't founded on what anyone said elsewhere, it is interesting to recall that certain things which have been said here have resulted in the banning and/or blocking and/or outright termination of membership of people at Lizzy's board, a board which has the support of Rick, Galen, many of those participating in this thread and most of those posting at MKA. If I understand correctly, the reason Lizzy gave the one person who enquired about the termination of their membership was something to the effect of: after reading their posts here she didn't think they would want to continue to be a member at her site. Others of her former members decided not to bother to ask why they were experiencing ongoing computer malfunctions when they attempted to log on over there.

m!b$, Rick's verison is an extreme simplication of part of something Lou wrote to Galen. Some of the things which were said at MKA reveal a lack of good will toward this board but Lou wouldn't ban anyone simply for something they said at a remote site. Well, I shouldn't say never. Maybe he would if it were bad enough. But obviously there is more to the situation than that.

This is sort of a question, or it was going to be a question, but I think I may have figured it out ... No, still a question. How much of the green sparkley stuff in the Last Dances is mica, and how much is aventurine? I was thrown at first by Edna's mention of "green mica", but now I realize that a lot of the sparkle in the green glass is reflections off of flat flakes. What color is the mica itself? Some stray pieces outside the green glass still look green but I suspect that might be reflected color. Sometimes tilting makes the green bits look closer to silver. And the Eagles have mica also? Here is my Peltier Mansion with mica. One piece caught the light great for the auction photo: