oldmarblenut

I think you are right Steph, they were taught by modern marble makers. Have any pictures of these right hand twists Galen???

Here is a handful of 9's, I tried to show the whip tails on the last 2.

Gee thanks manylittle... I can't help but step in when needed, people who know little about glassmaking shouldn't give other people the wrong information, it makes it much more confusing for those who don't know and even worse when those people tell other people what they heard. Sometimes random thoughts can lead to great misconceptions. I base my explanations from observation and experience in production work, there are so many things about glasswork that cannot be explained due to the lack of words in our vocabulary, some things just have to be experienced to understand. The old German marble shears I have were made for the right hand and cannot be used any other way, I'll stick to the need for speed and production for the reason most German handmades are right twist, the gaffer worked with a team of helpers, he merely rounded and cut off the marble, somebody else handled re-heating the canes, somebody else carried them to the leer or oven and somebody else actually made the cane, typical teams had more than one cane going at once, while the gaffer was making one marble a helper re-heated the other cane, when he was done with the marble they would switch rods and he would continue making marbles, glass production is based on speed and teamwork, if the gaffer was a leftie who only twisted them to the left I would expect to see much larger numbers of them as production requires consistent steady teamwork to reach their shift quota, glass shops are expensive to run and large numbers are what makes the factory survive. I think the left twists were made when the gaffer had time to fiddle around as he waited for another cane to be made or a problem held up the line. I will try to find a video to demonstrate production and how the team worked together to make large numbers of items in a shift or turn as it was called.

Gathering is done from the right corner of the furnace opening and done in a clockwise rotation to keep the punty steady against the right side corner, most furnace doors open to the left and would be in the way of gathering, covering or casing would be done in the same way, I've never seen anyone gather from the left side, I've only seen one reverse MFC 9 and I figured it was just a glassworker screwing around as gathering counterclockwise is rather difficult and puts the punty against the hot door farther up the rod than you want to handle, also it actually has nothing to do with the finishing of the cane, that's all done at the bench and on the marver, all the glassworkers I know ( left and right handed ) hold the punty rod with their left hand and use the tools with their right hand while at the bench. When making most marbles I rotate on the marver clockwise and I make the cut while drawing the rod towards myself like most modern marble makers, I think it gives me more control and I happen to like left hand twist marbles. The Italians made most latticino and reticello and zanfirico ribbons in a left hand twist, right handed twists are less common. Why the right handed twist is most common in German marbles I cannot explain other than maybe it was something to do with production, rotating on the marver counterclockwise is actually easier and faster, if anyone has ever been to Fenton glass and watched the teams you will see most rotate on the marver counterclockwise and cut offs are made while rolling away from the body, it is easier to maintain a constant long roll and cut offs drop into a bucket rather than on the work bench. 99.99% of my marbles are left hand twist and I am right handed

I am done with this topic

As I said, this was not my first marble fraud scam settled with the help of ebay... About 2 years ago there was seller with a couple new contemporary torch made marbles selling them as rare vintage handmades with claims of "genuine German antique" etc., I contacted them and received no response, so I messaged them again with no response. I called ebay and spoke with them regarding the fraudulent listing and that the buyer would not respond, I explained to them that I knew the maker of the marbles and could get the maker to verify them, they said that would be a great help so I contacted the maker and had them call ebay and verify that they made them, within minutes the listings were gone, ebay pulled them, then a couple days later they were re-listed as contemporary marbles, I sent them a message telling them who the maker was as they did not have a signature, their response was "Thank you! and that they were sold to them as rare old German handmade marbles" The seller was an antique shop owner who did not know a thing about marbles and was just trying to get his money back for them. ever since then I get an occasional email with marbles to ID for them. No fraud report other than my phone call, no multiple complaints, just the facts, and it worked. This must be another ebay because I have no clue why you are claiming it nearly impossible to contact them and get results. My guess would be over the years I have dealt with fraudulent marble sellers at least 8-10 times and every time found that ebay does care, you just have to talk to the right people in the right manner. Positive attitude gets positive results, walk in negative and you will walk out unsatisfied. My experience with just about every situation.

lstmmrbls... I guess you must be talking to the wrong people or the numbers you have are not for the right people, it's not that hard to make a call, I've done it 3 times with this particular issue and every time I got a good response from the person on the other end. maybe it was due to the fact that he responded in a such a nasty manner, I really can't say why I was able to make the call and talk to multiple departments and get results but the fact is... I did it and had not problems doing it so telling people it's extremely hard to do and that they don't care is not right. I found it's pretty clear that they do care when they get multiple people making the same complaint, I was told by the listing investigator that at least 4 other people sent fraud reports for the items in question, I was told they sent the seller messages regarding the reports and I was told they will act on this latest nasty email he sent, how they will handle it they did not specify but they did say they will do something, I have a reference number for my complaint. I'm sorry if you disagree or have had a less positive experience with ebay. I have faith in the system and I use it as needed without problems, as I said, this wasn't the first time down this road with ebay.

Left hand twist just twisted the other way and not common, left hand glass workers still use a right hand bench and hold their hand tools in the right hand, I've never seen a left handed work bench or any left handed tools.

LOL, I just sent him another message telling him he is getting closer to the truth, he revised it removing the words "hand made" minutes after I sent the message. and of course, I get another nasty email from him saying I am the only one who has contacted him etc. cuss curse foul.... so I replied saying I know of at least 2 others who sent him messages with a partial copy of one of them as proof, he replied instantly with more cuss words and insults so I contacted ebay again and got somebody on the phone and asked them to look at his current listings, I directed them to current good listings of the same type marbles so they could see what a properly listed character marble was, also showing them they are not scarce or vintage and they agree there is a problem, they also reviewed his most recent nasty emails and have now escalated my complaint to a higher level and this time I even got a reference # LOL. I say.. more people should hit his listings with questions and or comments. I consider it personal after he insulted me as he has and threatened me with violence.

On the listing there is a tab "report listing", it gives you options from there, I chose "listing practices", then "Fraudulent listing activities" and finally "you suspect the listing is fraudulent" then click "send report" Then I went to the customer support page and the link to "report a member" and then used the contact ebay tab and made a call regarding the foul language sent via ebay messages, while on the phone I told them about the reason for the reports and they viewed all the reports and messages between us, at that time I was directed to a listing specialist and after talking with him he directed me to a special investigator who actually read the listing and the fraud reports, I did this again the next day and he had done his investigating and contacted the seller with his warning. sure it was a long drawn out process but getting somebody on the phone is the key and following up the next day got the results.

At least he removed the Peltier and 1932 claim, the listings now state "scarce vintage handmade character marble"... he's getting closer LOL

I think a Peltier Blue Angel is blue and yellow ribbons in a muddy base??

they are on black, note how dark and muddy the yellow and red appear on top of the black.

I have a couple marbles from the St.Mary site where the base glass is black, some are Black Widows and the others are Bumblebees. Does this change the value as well?

I just got off the phone with an ebay special investigator, he said ebay does care and takes fraudulent item reports seriously as they are trying to run a safe and fair marketplace, he said that he contacted the seller and advised that the items of question need to be corrected or removed since multiple complaints were received from multiple members and his investigation revealed a definite violation of listing practice, also regarding the foul language and threats, the seller was warned that if one more message containing foul language or threats was sent to us they would receive a suspension for violation of ebay policy. I checked his listings and all have been corrected except for one, the time of the revisions were quite recent so I can assume he is not done with that particular one. How's that for ebay doing nothing ? looks like zip done no more fraudulent listing. Thanks to all who showed you care.

I never heard of a golden boy either nor a blue base bumble bee??? it looks like a cub scout. after all the digging at the old MK dump site there are a lot of blends and oddballs now on the market, I didn't know they all had names.

Looks lobed to me too, but the listing doesn't say anything about it being lobed?

I say BS! I have been through this before, they did do something, the sellers were restricted and or suspended after ebay did their investigations and found the items to be fraudulent and the seller did misrepresent them as original or genuine. I'm sorry if you feel they won't do anything but I can speak from experience. Sure there are a lot of fake items out there but until somebody complains ebay does not know and they don't care if you list it because they do not police the site for fraudulent items, they expect the buyers and sellers to do the policing and the reporting, and that's why they have set the rules as they have. The comment about "nobody to sue" is nonsense, ebay does not sue, only the jilted buyer can sue, ebay has nothing to do with the legal aspects of a fraudulent sale, it's up to the buyer to file suit if the case warrants it and ebay has nothing to with it, they have no liability in mail fraud cases. Mail fraud is a federal offense, it has been since 1872, it covers any fraudulent scheme or act to deprive another of property or honest service through the mail. this covers every sale made on ebay that has gone through the process of US mail or private delivery. This means if you bought a bogus item you have the right to file a mail fraud claim, and in the event the item is found to be of fraudulent nature and the seller sold it to you as genuine you will win your case in any US court of law, regardless of the value. of course nobody is going to file a claim for $9.99 however they do have the right to if they choose. . Ebay has nothing to do with the law. it's up to buyers and sellers to let them know of a problem and they are obligated to act when a problem is brought to their attention. it would be considered irresponsible for them not to act on the complaints they receive.

LOL Bill, he called me Jackass too, many times, I reported his marble listings again. Wadely, I know it's a reproduction, it his listing that creates the problem, it says "not a reproduction" and that it is a 1932 handmade Peltier LOL. My wife says I should have bought it and then filed a complaint, pfft... I rather just send the friendly FYI and see what happens, he instantly became a jerk and started to insult, then the nicer I was in my replies the worse he got, when I said "shame on you for such language" he really went off saying he wanted my address so he could meet me face to face LOL, it's funny how big people are behind the keyboard. Zaboo, I've dealt with fraudulent listings many times, I watch the seller afterwards for a while and typically I see the listing removed before the scheduled ending or see the seller become "unregistered" after a week or two so I think in many cases ebay will do something if you give them enough information.

ebay item # 161248758650 seller chriscollectibles2012 a couple days ago I sent him a message with a couple links to real peltier comic strip marbles, I also warned him that he could fool the wrong person and end up hurting a new collector and have to deal with problems from his fraudulent listings. he replied with numerous threats and expletives, even threatened to come to my house and teach me a lesson LOL. I'm not worried about that but I think if a couple more people report his listing as fraudulent Ebay might take notice? Sellers like this hurt novice collectors and take advantage of people with their fraudulent listings. I asked him if he cared, he said F no and he could care less about collectors, he just wants to make money and will do whatever it takes, especially since marbles are such a hot item, there were plenty of F you's and F off's in his replies.

When I made a couple sulphide paperweights I did it by... pre heating the figure on a poker in the glory hole, as the figure was heating I gathered a medium amount of glass on a punty then inserted (stuffed) the figure into the glass and then back to the glory hole to re-heat the glass to around 2000' and close the spot where I pushed in the figure in, then cased again and continued with color/decoration etc. I found when the figure is pre heated to about 2000' (about 200' hotter than the glass) it left little if any bubble on or near the figure, just a nice silvery surface of air trapped at the surface of the figure, a colder figure would hold air and when exposed to the hotter glass it would grow a large bubble in just about any direction around the figure. Hotter figure better result, the figures were made of high fire porcelain, I've also seen zircar used for the figures, I never tried it but the technique would be the same. Ray Laubs is probably the best modern sulphide maker, I learned a lot from him.

This photo reminds me of something strange they used to do back in those days, sometimes when I child would die, they would take a photo of the child posed in a chair, most often you would see an arm holding the child up from behind, we have an old family photo of that sort, every time my aunt gets it out to show off I get the willies, she said it was her GG grandfathers brother who died from whooping cough in the 1860's

His breath??? LOL, looks like a benny or maybe a china with flowers??

Thanks Hansel, I made a couple last year, was a lot of fun figuring it out etc..