lstmmrbls

Sorry Mon I do not see where the shear mark is with your explanation. Here is drawing of how it was all explained to me by a glass artist. And it makes perfect sense to me. The punty is not spun in hand but held tight and swirled to gather glass. The pulley like thing uner the punty at the right is the rounding machine. I wish Brian would contribute here!!! I may be way off base.

Sorry Mon but your way of seeing it eliminates the possibility of a nice long shear mark usually seen on these marbles. I don't see how they would have a shear mark with your explanation. The tail we see is not from the cut side of the glob. It is what often strings out of the pot as the gather is drawn out of the pot, And Mike, wouldn't the shear at least result in the lack of a distinct 9 on the second marble. I believe Brian can explain how the nine is on the side of the glob that is last to leave the molten glass and the tail is the string that follows My whole theory is because of the speed they were made. If you want to introduce a capturing devise(which I think Mike believes in) and remove the need for speed quite a lot would be possible, even swirls, Look at McCormicks marbles. But the Nine and tail with a shear mark would completely disappear

I think that diving occurs as the glass slides off the punty. I have to believe that both sides of the shear in the glass will look pretty similar if not almost identical.. So the 9 side of the second marble would look almost exactly like the shear side of the first. Then you get no nine on the other side but another shear mark So if another glob does come off it will have another shear mark on the other side. But please keep going as I am trying real hard to see how more than one marble may have been possible. But at this time I just can't see how the second marble would not have 2 shear marks, keeping in mind the speed of the process and how the glass flows off a punty. I think we would be seeing a completely different marbles for the second if 2 were made from the same gather. Now we may be helping me see how there are single seam and 2 seam marbles nearly identical are possible from CAC. I have a very knowledgeable marble maker trying to convince me that most of the CACs (except the swirls) were handgathered marbles. And this discussion is getting me to at least listen a little harder towards that possibility. But I am still way far away from being convinced Come on Mikey, your worse than I am at giving some details. Give it a go. I type so slow I lose track of what I am trying to say while I am hunting and pecking. (LOL)

3 seconds x 10,000= 30,000 seconds 8x60x60= 28,8000 seconds, = less than 3 seconds per marble, and that would be 8 hours non-stop no breaks nothing but swirling holding over the machine getting it sheared and going in for another gather. With lunch, pee breaks, glass pot refills, stuck marbles ect I figure maybe a 10 hour shift. with no breaks in 10 hrs I think it works out to 3.6 seconds per marble. Great discussion guys and gals. I imagine multiple machines were needed as they could gather and shear much faster than a single machine would take for a marble to get hard enough to force the rollers open and drop through hard enough to stay perfectly round and get no pull marks on them. I do a great impression of a gatherer that is fairly amusing but you have to have been at a marble show when I am having this discussion to see it. Also that glass is pretty darn hot and liquid. It comes off in one glob. I believe they were not standing at a furnace but a pot of molten glass brought to each gatherer. It had to be very molten so many marbles could be consistently gathered. This was a spectacularly quick non stop repetitious action that I do not believe would be altered now and then to let extra glass run off the punty. I think It would slow everything down way too much......just thinking And I still say a double cut marble would have 2 shear marks No tail and no 9 Just no way around that.

Yes, that is what I was describing. His diagram just does not show how the glass is picked up by swirling the punty in the glass that gives the 9 pattern. O/T I think CAC also taught their gatherers other methods besides swirling in a circular motion that resulted in hand gathered marbles that did not necessarily exhibit a 9. Did Brian say he ever went for more than 1 marble per gather.(never mind ,his are hand rounded so only one would ever be made at a time) I also think the more than one marble per gather story is pure conjecture and highly unlikely. And will think that way until someone shows me handgathered MFC marbles with 2 shear marks. (The tail and the 9 both disappear from the glass gathered on the punty when the marble is sheared. I believe a gatherer was taught to get just enough glass for one marble so most of the glass was off the punty when going in for another gather. A big glob would be just that, a big glob, and would come off the punty that way. Not a little bit at a time so several marble could be made with a single gather. And yes Mon I have watched literally hundreds of glass globs gathered on to punties. It flows off in a glob the size of the gather

Sure looks like it. And those are HTF !!!!

Darn it, my thimble is round but now I can't use it! Great find Stacy! And a fantastic earlier guess.

Didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you. Yes I think that was conjecture in the book. Look at the marbles with nice tails, they all still have a shear mark. And the tail comes from the side of the glob as it is pulled from the pot. Not as it drips off a punty. (just saying). .......... All those machine mades with long drizzles also have been through a shear(although quite a bit different than a pair of scissors)

I believe it is just a lot of conjecture about not shearing handgathered marbles. It was a process paid piece work so time was extremely important. It was also a shearer and a gatherer at each machine. It is extremely hard for me to think of a guy standing there waiting for the perfect sized glob to drip all the way off a punty. Sorry, just not buying it. And I think the marbles I have with nice tails still show a cut mark with the tail occasionally being lost in the shear mark?(gonna have to check).......Just checked and yes the tail comes off the 9 side and is the stringer that comes out of the pot when pulling up the glob, not from the end that that leaves the punty last. Now if we are talking hand rounded marbles like Harveys' melted pontils I can see some of those not having to have the break off point melted. And if a team was standing at a machine for 8 hours out of their day with no breaks for glass pot deliveries doing nothing but gathering and shearing they where making a mable approximately every 2.9 seconds. At those speeds(and actually probably much faster) I don't think anyone was waiting for a drip of glass to run all the way off the punty.

Yep, cost savings started the process and also ended it at MK

So you consider some of the marbles made by Peltier to be similar to the Early MKs?????? The only synonym I could find anywhere close was overlayer

Isn't it usually used for the parts being veneered. (like thats a veneer on that table top}.........just saying

Whatever words are used I think the process of completely covering a marble with a thin layer of different glass is different than applying individual patches or wide stripes etc. And veneering is a pretty good word for the process of applying a thin layer over the whole marble. Howdyshell used a process for covering the whole marble in a thin layer and called it veneering, and quit calling it veneering when they went to just applying patches. So that word is fine with me if the guy that did it, used it. Look what you started Steph{LOL} of course I have to ignore anyone at Vitro or elsewhere that used the term for patches

I think you said it all when you said You can not remove the marble with out damaging the thimble. It happens to be a perfect place for a marble to get stuck by a child at play. So that may be what has happened.

And as for the transitional red Germans, They are probably from a date after MFCs were made. It is the handgathered ground pontils that are earlier.

Hope it is Okay to disagree with you Edna. I think of veneering as covering the whole surface. Like a tooth or piece of wood. Kind of like Websters below. I am sure many disagree and thats Okay. And I have to add that even Howdyshell did not consider marbles veneered with only patches put on a colored base. VENEER : a thin sheet of a material: as a : a layer of wood of superior value or excellent grain to be glued to an inferior wood b : any of the thin layers bonded together to form plywood c : a plastic or porcelain coating bonded to the surface of a cosmetically imperfect tooth 2 : a protective or ornamental facing (as of brick or stone) 3 : a superficial or deceptively attractive appearance, display, or effect : facade, gloss <a veneer of tolerance>

Looks like a killer CAC to me?

And one of the best duets ever sung. It always brings me to tears. Yes I said tears.

I did have a thing for Karen. Here is one of my favorite singers and she still has it.

Beautiful example a of an Amsterdam flame swirl Winnie!

I understood your reference to Akron (Dykes) marbles.

I do not, Not in the same way the Early MKs were completely covered in a skin of multiple colors in a pattern. When I think of the word veneer I think of something with a surface different than the substrate. Not just a small area of that surface. And not with the way so much of the opaque glass enters the marble at times.

http://www.americantoymarbles.com/akronhist.htm

I just can't believe you know the difference between the Kokomo run and New Decade (LOL) And they even closed and changed the 06 Jabo listing

No statement of no red marbles, just no cullet, discarded marbles, names, packaging or any records at all, of transparent red glass marbles. As for Leighton,I know of no red, melted pontil, marbles. Lots of purples but no red. Maybe someone has some?