hdesousa Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 The price list on the back appears to be for Peltier marbles. National Onyx Marbles (Ass.7 colors), Milkie Agates, Cerise Red Agates, and Prima Agates But the box contains Akros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 What happened to this one? Also, its missing a #5 box that fits on the left side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Wow -- great Pelt boxes! Don't remember seeing those before. Clyde -- looks like three of the four marbles in the rightmost column might actually be Pelt Prima Agates . . . Do you think so? [not mine] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 When did the Akro sticker get placed there? Any idea? Was that from an antique store? What does the sticker inside say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 When did the Akro sticker get placed there? Any idea? Was that from an antique store? What does the sticker inside say? I bought it from collectors some 25 years ago. I'm pretty sure the Akro label was there when they 'found' it. I think the inside label says 'comics 80 c m' . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 What happened to this one? Also, its missing a #5 box that fits on the left side. What do you mean "What happened to this one?". It's still as it was when your pics were taken. Now give us your learned and respected opinion on the one I pictured, before you're accused of hijacking the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Very special box!! I would do everything possible to get the original Pelt types back in that box if it were mine. Those Akros kind of pollute it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Very special box!! I would do everything possible to get the original Pelt types back in that box if it were mine. Those Akros kind of pollute it. Pollution to you may be vital historical information to someone else. Maybe M. Gropper also sold Akro, and this had been in fact an Akro sampler at the end of it's useful life. Then again, could just be pollution. But I can give you an example where an expert messed up a nice box with only good intentions. The original Marble Mania has a small Akro "coffin" box containing solid light blue marbles. Probably one of the first Akro boxes out of Clarksburg, when Akro was still using MFC marbles in their boxes. When Roger Hardy acquired that box, before he knew Akro bought and resold MFC marbles and even before most people knew MFC made opaques, he replaced and discarded a graduated set of solid light blue marbles for red slags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 No jacking. I put up pics to put to discussion to compare the two boxes. Not sure why the sticker because I believe both milkies and primas were not massed produced. How many milkies and primas boxes have you seen or know about? The milkes look like moonies to most people and primas look like cac American agates. Cerise agates are a different story. I found cerise agates unknowingly in the wild before I knew they were cerise. Was the onyx on the sticker pre feathered? I think so. How many can tell from cac? I think the box is early but can easily be used as an argument for possible both cac and/or pelt with just a sticker. A la yours. As to why its got akro, I don't know. As we have seen boxes can contain anything when we buy it. Take those out and put in master, mk, vitro, hell even jabo and with out documentation 80-100 yrs from now they will be having the same discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinemades Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Without any intention to hijack the thread...I have learned that Milkies, Prima Agates, Opal Agates and Cerise Agates were very early Peltier (circa 1924 onwards) production. It is interesting to note that Primas, like Clyde mentioned, look like American Agates and nothing like Peltiers. There is a large number of them out there too to counter the thought of they are very early rare Peltiers. Hmmmm... Sami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 I like how you didnt replace the marbles and left it as found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Primas, like Clyde mentioned, look like American Agates and nothing like Peltiers. There is a large number of them out there too to counter the thought of they are very early rare Peltiers. Hmmmm... Sami I don't know that there are so many Primas out there -- but perhaps, if you count all that have mistakenly been ID'd as CAC American agates. I've seen some of the early Peltier paperwork (thank you forever, migbar) and Prima Agates (looking like CAC American Agates -- or vice versa) were one of the three types of marbles first produced at Peltier, with the other two being the onyx and the Cerise Agate. Can't resist sticking my beloved Cerise box in here again . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 The box that Hansel shows appears to have several Peltier cerise onyx marbles and at least a few Peltier prima agates, to me. The box that Clyde shows seems to be all Peltier marbles, with the possible exception of the large green one, at least I haven't found one that is quite that color. Milkies first show up in the August, 1927 inventory, with few made, even compared to the prima agates; but they were a production marble for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 The box that Hansel shows appears to have several Peltier cerise onyx marbles and at least a few Peltier prima agates, to me. The box that Clyde shows seems to be all Peltier marbles, with the possible exception of the large green one, at least I haven't found one that is quite that color. Milkies first show up in the August, 1927 inventory, with few made, even compared to the prima agates; but they were a production marble for a few years. Mike, How do you tell a Peltier cerise red from an Akro cardinal red? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted March 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 When did the Akro sticker get placed there? Any idea? Was that from an antique store? The Akro sticker corresponds to the typewritten prices for National Onyx. i.e. # 0 - 150 c #1 - 160 c #2- 180 c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Hansel, I've seen the Akro Cardinal Reds only in pictures, but they appear pretty much identical to the Peltier Cerise Onyx that I dug at the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted March 27, 2014 Report Share Posted March 27, 2014 Nearly all of the Cerise Agates in my box have a visible (but not feel-able) seam. Another Cerise-box-owner has confirmed to me that his do too. You must have at least one box, Hansel . . . do many of your Cerises have a seam? I don't have any Cardinal Reds, and like Mike have only seen them in pics, so I can't offer any meaningful comparison there. Unless someone sends me some Cardinal Reds to look at, of course. It could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 Hansel, I think the akro sticker was put there by the same person who polluted the box. Only because its got sizes and price per carton. Why and who do you think put the typed label on the box? What is handwritten on that label? For me the difference between a cerise and a cardinal is that the cerise has more orange to it. The cardinal red is a darker shade. Put side by side of my cerise and cardinal box there is a clear difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 so what are we suggesting to do with the polluted box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted March 28, 2014 Report Share Posted March 28, 2014 .... on the subject of "polluted boxes" ... how many boxes can you think of which may have had their proper contents removed to replace them with marbles which people thought belonged ... until folks learned there actually was a reason for the marbles which they found in the boxes. Thinking of Rosenthal boxes and "Marble King" boxes. And Akro Special boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I understand Hansels point and would certainly keep those marbles separated just in case I ever found out Akro products were distributed by Gropper. I have made a mistake myself with a box. I got a beat up Prima box full of what I assumed were American Agates so I put them with my CAC American Agates. Well I now think that the two types are pretty much identical (Thanks Arnold)and I made a mistake. Ooops, There was a great variance in size so I am sure all were not original but I would have kept many of them with the box if I knew what I now do. Gino now has a bunch of them so they went to a good home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted March 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Hansel, I think the akro sticker was put there by the same person who polluted the box. Only because its got sizes and price per carton. Why and who do you think put the typed label on the box? What is handwritten on that label? For me the difference between a cerise and a cardinal is that the cerise has more orange to it. The cardinal red is a darker shade. Put side by side of my cerise and cardinal box there is a clear difference. Clyde, My guess is that the person who pasted the typed label on the bottom of the box was a Gropper salesman. The box was probably originally set up with Peltier products as printed on the inside of the lid. Sometime after Gropper started selling Akro marbles, it was converted to sell Akro marbles, and that's when the handwritten Akro sticker and Akro marbles were put in it. No idea what is handwritten in pencil on the typed label. I'd originally thought it was a kid's scribbling, but a more careful look after you asked shows it was more purposeful. Here it is correct way up. Any bright ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 here is the box I screwed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 Nice primas, Galen. They were made in all sizes, #00 to #6. (calling Gino now...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted March 29, 2014 Report Share Posted March 29, 2014 I would also like to know If anyone has info Akro Agate marbles were ever distributed by Gropper. I believe some were rebranded by jobbers(like some nets of Akros)but never heard Gropper had anything to do with Akro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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