Patches Found In Alley Dirt

[lstmmrbls]

So if they are not Alley made and are supposed to be Akro why are the same marbles not found in any Akro literature or packaging and why are there not large amounts of known Akro types(corkscrews) found in the dirt.

[Steph]

It would be useful, interesting and possibly reassuring to see examples of marbles from Akro dirt (or wherever) which match the ones from Alley dirt.

This comparison photo Browndog took was frequently used in the effort to convince everyone that patches found at Sistersville were Alleys:

It would be soooo nice for someone who had the marble resources to show some comparisons of known non-Alleys to go with the patches we see from Sistersville.

[ann]

So if they are not Alley made and are supposed to be Akro why are the same marbles not found in any Akro literature or packaging and why are there not large amounts of known Akro types(corkscrews) found in the dirt.

What he said. I've even gone over the collection photos in the Akro book, thinking the Hardys would have them if no one else . . . but I don't see anything like those.

Also, knowing now that you can get both patches and swirls from the same machinery . . .

[I'llhavethat1]

[wvrons]

OK i will bite again ! Grad a big bag of popcorn. I hoped maybe something new had come about. But not that i know of or see here. I still am not convinced that Alley made patch marbles at the Sistersville WV location. Why- Why would he make patches at Sistersville for only a short time in 1931 and he left there in late 1931. No patch marbles of any amount has been found at four other Alley locations from 1929 to 1949. In 1931 competition would be much more difficult with patches than swirls. I have maybe 10 gallon or more of marbles dug at Sistersville. I have seen and had in my hands another 10-20 gallon dug at Sistersville. From those numbers the majority 90% of the patch marbles match with what i dug and seen dug at Akro. I cannot match every single one but the majority. The ratio of matches is much more than a few odd ones that i do not have matches for. I have no doubts what so ever that i did not dig or have seen every patch that Akro every produced. I could not say that Akro discarded every type or color combo patch that they produced. I could not say that every marble Akro produced was put into good color pictures in Akro literature. I cannot say that i have seen or handled every single package that Akro did. I feel certian that some Akro marbles were sold bulk and never in a small package or box. There are Akro corkscrews found in the dirt at Sistersville. But not the numbers like patch marbles and swirls. Why are Akro corkscrews found in the dirt at Sistersville ???? If corkscrews ened up there why not patches ??? I would suspect that if Akro had excess of something cheap to sell it would be more patch type than corkscrews. I will post pictures of patches from the dirt at Sistersville and post pictures of patches from the dirt at Akro. You will see by the display cases that the majority are of patches found at Sistersville are not the ones usually pictured. The patches pictured most from Sistersville are not the largest number of patches found there. I doubt that anyone here today or only a very few anyplace today has had any more Sistersville marbles thorugh their hands than me. If so i would always like to see them for more comparision.

In 1932 there were legal problems and Alley sold out to the broker either Berry Pink or more likely Morris Rosenthal. In 1931 Berry Pink had suggested that Rosenthal acuire the Alley business. In 1932 the company is listed as incorporated with Berry Pink as treasure and purchasing agent and Russell U. Adams as general manager. The legal case went to trial long after Alley left. The case ended up Berry Pink plantiff against Morris Rosenthal and the The Rosenthal Company of New York date April 15,1934. The major dispute was over 50% of the issued capital stock of Lawerence Glass Novelty Company. It was not unusal for Alley to leave once trouble began. He had left Ravenswood earlier because of trouble. This was when the Ravenswood equipment was destroyed by stangers for patent infringments.

Did Berry Pink and or Morris Rosenthal produce marbles at Sistersvillein the years after Alley was gone ?????? Did Berry Pink or Morris Rosenthal package other companies marbles at Sistersville in the years after Alley was gone ??????? I think both or either could have been possible.

I will state it once again . Lawerance Alley was not the only single marble person at the same Sistersville location. I can see other reasons that Akro or other companies marbles could have ended up at the Sistersville location. Other than being produced by Lawerance Alley.

Somehow Berry Pink became head of the company after Alley left . Pink no longer worked for Lawrence Glass after this law suit. In another case held Dec.1934 Pink was tried in Tyler County WV (Sistersville)and found innocent of stealing two marble packaging machines from the company. So was Berry Pink packaging marbles at Sistersville. Was he packaging Alley marbles two years after Alley was gone. Was he packaging marbles from different companies ? Berry Pink evidently needed marble packaging machines which he and Rosenthal the company owned.

The company continued to operate after Alley was gone. It operated until sometime between 1935 and March 1940. So a marble company was in operation at Sistersville WV at least four years maybe eight years after Alley was gone.

If you want to identify the patch marbles found at Sistersville as being made by Alley,thats fine. But i cannot tell or teach people that. Because i still have doubts. I have no proof that Alley ever made a usual production patch type marble. Until i have better or new information to point towards Alley making a patch marble. I will not tell collectors that patches found at the Sistersville location were produced by Alley. I have been taught very well by some here and others that just because something is found in the dirt at a certian location does not alwasy prove that it was produced there. There has been numbers of Peltier marbles and original Peltier packages found in the dirt at the St.Marys Marble King location. Did Marble King produce Pelteir marbles at St.Marys WV ?????????? As much logic as Alley making patches at Sistersville.

Enough said,i have said it all before,nothing new,just more repeat. If you believe and want to tell or teach that Alley made patch marbles for less than a year at the Sistersville WV location,thats fine. But i cannot do it. Maybe someday but not today. \

Please excuse the spelling and grammer mistakes,tired and sleepy.

Several pictures to follow below.

[wvrons]

[wvrons]

[wvrons]

[wvrons]

[wvrons]

[wvrons]

[Steph]

Why are Akro corkscrews found in the dirt at Sistersville ????

They were? I was not aware of that.

[Steph]

The company continued to operate after Alley was gone. It operated until sometime between 1935 and March 1940. So a marble company was in operation at Sistersville WV at least four years maybe eight years after Alley was gone.

Brand new info to me! And fascinating. What did they call themselves after Alley left?

If Rosenthal had control of that property for years, then yeah, them packaging marbles there would be easy to believe.

[Steph]

Thanks for all the patch pix.

[wvrons]

As far as i know it was continued as the Lawerence Alley Glass company after Alley left. That is what the Tyler county courthouse and newspaper records indicate.

I have been collecting dug Sistersville marbles since at least 2004 up until two weeks ago.

Here are just a few Akro that was dug by my hands. They look like a large percetage of patches found at Sistersville to me.

[wvrons]

More Akro that i dug myself.

[wvrons]

Dug Akro

Dug at Sistersville

[wvrons]

More dug Sistersville.

[wvrons]

More dug Sistersville

[wvrons]

[Steph]

The quality of the Sistersville ones seems to be all over the place.

Including a wide range in consistency of the translucent white-ish base glass. Some of the Sisterville base glass has struck me as more watery than Akro findings were.

Is that just wishful thinking on my part?

[wvrons]

If you have five gallon of dug Akro. I think you may also find the base glass is different and not all exactly the same from day to day or week to week. Close but no exact. The patch hole at Akro was probably one of the largest and produced probably the most numbers of marbles. A flat bed trailer from a semi truck sat in the center where the Akro patch hole was dug early on. Enough digging happened that the complete flat bed trailer fell into the hole out of site. I don't know of much anyplace in front of or around the more current dance studio building that did not produce Akro patch marbles. I think Akro for many many years had a over abundance or over production of patch marbles. Another reason some could have eneded up at Sistersville. I believe over 20 years there were a lot more patches dug at Akro than corkscrews and popeyes. Matter of fact the number of popeyes were few. Why because the sales were better they were more popular than patches. Same reason there is a way fewer corks than patches found at Sistersville.

These are the largest numbers of patch colors style etc found at both locations.

You tell me which is which ?

[wvrons]

Akro or Sistersville ?

[wvrons]

I do not know who all made patches found at the Alley Sistersville site. But as of today and for some time now,i am not convinced that Alley made any patch marbles. I know what the books may say or show but i know very well that mistakes happen and things may change soon or later after publishing. Just one of many reasons to never do a book. It can take years to try and correct past incorrect things in print and in old thougths. These Alley patches will pop up for years and years ahead. On chat boards,at shows,on ebay,on facebook,where ever marbles or marble collectors are. It has been going on for several years and will continue. Maybe Alley made patches but as of today i do not want to be the one spreading that information.

It is your decision about Alley patches and as of yet today i have not changed mine. But i can with something new.

Enough my finger is sore,my camera battery is low,my mouth is sore from the hook and the popcorn is all gone.

[SNYD]

Ron,

I ran out of popcorn a long time ago.........very nice in depth outline. I will confirm that all the dug Sistersville mibs that I have had always had (by percentages) more Akro patches than Alleys. As expected they are similar to what you have shown, with most being the orange and green base with AV. Just as a note, I liked your comment about not being found at any other Alley site. One would think that since the swirls followed Alley (even at St Mary's when colors were not as eye popping and the swirl action seemed to be much less) that if patches were being made they too would follow the company to different locations. I sure hope you keep good notes that someday future collectors can refer to....................................time will make discussions like this harder to convey...........Good job!

Snyd