Once Again Japanese Transitional

[winnie]

Here are 4 Jap- transitionals with spidery cut off.

From left to right is one marble.

Left is the front on the right side the spidery cut off.

The ones that Roger pointed out in his tabel (seen in Hansel's thread) are sloppy made,the front isn't as nice as these ones.I think thats confusing,you may think that all the Japanese ones are ugly made,as you can see thats not the case.

Here are the different cut offs of the Japanese box.It's not a good picture,I took it with my little camera.

[Steph]

some straight lines in there.

very good to know.

[hdesousa]

Thanks Winnie. We'll get to the bottom of this eventually, I hope.

Have you seen any red/white 'transitionals' in a box marked "Made in Japan"?

This is your picture: What do the pontils look like?

[I'llhavethat1]

If nothing else, The red/white "transitionals' POP bold color, stand out in a crowd and outnumber the other opaque marbles of this type by a huge margin, from what I've seen. Wonder why? Red apparently wasn't common on North American hand gathered marbles (during the era hand gathered marbles were being made in North America)

[winnie]

Thanks Winnie. We'll get to the bottom of this eventually, I hope.

Have you seen any red/white 'transitionals' in a box marked "Made in Japan"?

This is your picture: What do the pontils look like?

The cut offs in my picture are all different,spidery--short line--long line--pinprick and some are almost smooth.

There for by looking at the cut offs,I can't trace where they are made or where they came from.

Yes in this Jap- box you can see the red/white ones.

[winnie]

When I start to collect them,I thought that all the sloppy made ones were made in Japan,but I don't think so anymore,after all, there are some nice looking transitionals in my collection with a spidery cut off.

Some people advice me to look closely at the glassd and I did,but that tells me not much.

[winnie]

I will add something else,When I found an old marble group here in Holland,I've noticed the transitionals in that group have different cut offs.

here's one with a short line

And this one has a long line

long line

[I'llhavethat1]

Could be redundant, but I'd question if the glass temperature plays a big part in the 'spidery' cutoffs vs 'line' cutoffs (rather than guesses like where they were made or the sharpness of the shears?) It's an open general question

[winnie]

I've always thought,the sharpness of the shears or blades plays a bigger part ,in the differences of the cut offs,than the temperatur of the

glass,but thats just me,can't proof it.LOL

[hdesousa]

I will add something else,When I found an old marble group here in Holland,I've noticed the transitionals in that group have different cut offs.

here's one with a short line

And this one has a long line

long line

Winnie, I notice you hesitate to say where you think these short and long line pontil marbles are made. :-) I hope some day we can figure that out.

My marbles which come from boxes marked made in Japan have spidery pontils just as yours do.

Here are a few pics of the boxes and marbles.

On the other hand, these marbles that are primarily found in Canada, and the marbles in this 100 count box have the line pontils (short and long) like your red/white marbles above. Wish the makers labeled their boxes.

[lstmmrbls]

It is temperature of the glass that plays the biggest part IMO. If the glass is hot enough the cutoff can be really rough but the marble will still get rounded smooth on the rounding rollers. So the speed in which the gathering and shearing is done can also play a part as well as the temperature the furnace(pot) is kept at. I also believe a different type of shear(other than big straight blade scissors) was used on some? Hansel that box with bag is really special and I love the Canadian types!

Had to Edit Hansels name for Winnies. Hansel you continue to amaze with so many wonderful marbles in your collection!!

[Shamrock Marbles]

Japan is an island with minimal natural resources.

Pretty much everything has to be imported to the isle and that would include energy (coal, oil, wood or natural gas).

Modern Japanese glass (Satake) glass is formulated to have a low melting point.

I would presume that Japanese glass factories altered their formulas to melt at a lower temperature to economize their energy usage.

I agree with Galen that it was mostly the temperature of the glass at the time of shearing.

He also points out the time the glass is removed from the heat source before delivery to the shear has an impact. The quicker the better. Don't let that glass cool!

Blade geometry (straight versus curved) have different effects.

Blade actuation speed can have an impact. The longer a "cold" blade is in contact with the "hot" glass the more pronounced will be a thermal witness mark.

Blade condition. A sharp blade will leave a clean line with a minimal mark. As the blade dulls, it will leave a more prominent mark.

Other considerations are:

The amount the gob is allowed to drip from the punty before shearing. Increased time and cross-section reduction will cool the glass more.

The ratio of gob size to punty diameter.

Acceptable quality standards for the given wholesale price point.

Sincerely,

John McCormick

"Shamrock Marbles"

[winnie]

Thanks Galen and John,that make sense.

Hansel said;

Winnie, I notice you hesitate to say where you think these short and long line pontil marbles are made. :-) I hope some day we can figure that out.

I tend to think that they are all made (the transitions with different cut offs) in the same country,and that will be Japan,until I see them in their original packaging from a country other than Japan.

[winnie]

Here are some transitionals with colors that differ from the standard colors,they have different cut offs,visible and felt with fingernail.

[ann]

I agree with you Winnie that not all the ones with "spidery" cut-offs are sloppy. I have a neat and pretty one in lavender transparent that I got from Alan ages ago.

And thanks, Hansel -- that's the first time I've seen those "Made in Japan" boxes!