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Curious About Champions


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I've picked up the occasional nice Champion, or marbles I just liked that were ID'd as Champion later by more knowledgeable folks, so I've wound up with a dozen or so -- not counting the Furnace Swirls, which I once pursued with some determination. So I don't have a really good handle on Champions in general.

All this by way of saying I just got a pretty marble that the seller had ID'd as Champion, but I don't know whether that's right or not, not having a known Champion it resembles. And when I got it in hand it was nicer than I expected it to be, with unexpected depth.

So what do you think?

But after you tell me, maybe we could have a run of nice Champions to look at?

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Al, yours in the lower left looks pretty close --

Steph, at first I thought the green on yours was too variegated, but on staring at it a little I reconsidered -- it may just be a bit of clear glass imparting depth to the green.

I do feel better about the Champion call, then . . .

Here's another couple of mine I have pictures of --

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I can't say it is or it is not a Champion Agate. I can say that I have a lot of Champion and I don't have one that looks like your marble. Your marble is a pretty one.

Thanks, Edna -- it's the width of the green areas that bothers me . . . is that the main thing that makes you question it being Champion?

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Could the first one be CAC ? Lots of new information with Champion has come about in the last three or four years. Because of recent excavations at Alley Pennsboro and Saint Marys sites. Marbles found in Larry Alleys collection from the Saint Marys factory. Marbles found in Frank Sellers(another Alley grandson) collection from Lawerence Alley. Many of the green corals are now being proven made by Alley. The green corals have also been excavated the last two years at Alley Saint Marys. Champion had in stock marbles from many past WV companies. They packaged at least five or six different companies marbles in their bicenntinal bags. Champion being located within 30-50ft. of Alley at Pennsboro has always caused confusion. New and more information,more numbers of everything help make identifications more accurate. Research is still going on with many WV swirl marbles. More WV swirl marbles are being more positively identified every year now.

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Steph the marbles in the ring above are Alley,except for the two far left second row and the first one far left third row.

Ann your two above--the green/white and red is Ravenswood. It is named Ravenswood Christmas Tree. They and piceces of them have been excavated at Ravenswood during the last five years. The second one green and coral is Alley. Are found in Larry Alleys collection,in Frank Sellers collection and excavated at Alley Saint Marys site the last two years.

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Steph the marbles in the ring above are Alley,except for the two far left second row and the first one far left third row.

Ann your two above--the green/white and red is Ravenswood. It is named Ravenswood Christmas Tree. They and piceces of them have been excavated at Ravenswood during the last five years. The second one green and coral is Alley. Are found in Larry Alleys collection,in Frank Sellers collection and excavated at Alley Saint Marys site the last two years.

You sent me the marbles in the ring. You labeled them Champion at the time. I was pretty sure you dug them. Does this mean that they were part of the Alley marbles which Champion kept on hand? Is this part of the new information coming out?

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Ann your two above with clear red/orange blue or purple are Champion. Not easy ones to find. Nola has the dates when Dave McCullogh produced these at Champion. The main production at Champion was solid color or game marbles flats or gems and single color transparent swirls up until Dave McCullogh was hired.

Many of the plastic Champion bags has been filled by people other than Champion company. Mesh Champion bags are rare to find.

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I am sure that i sent you the marbles. What year was that ? Several years ago. I probably did dig them and probably very near the Champion building. So i labeled them Champion as best i knew at the time and what collectors then told me they looked like. At that time i had probably never dug an Alley marble or very few. Some of what you have could be some Alleys which Champion had ? I now know Champion used the old Alley building for storage and packaging. Marbles found near the surface or in the creek at glass factory hallow can be confusing. Because of the old Alley and Champion sites are within 30-50ft of each other there. With time new information more information more marbles and things change. It was the best information i had back then. I post the best that i have today when possible. But some of it may change next week or year or whenever if something more is discovered. Sorry for causing your consfusion but you got the best that i knew at the time. If anyone has information or thoughts that most in the ring are not Alley please share. I am always searching yet after 20yrs and willing to change. With the yellow/orange base red swirls many times flames. The base and swirls shades can vary with these. The largest majority of these were made at the Alley Sistersville site. That is as of today according to what i have seen in 5 or 6 five gallon buckets dug there. Only a very few have been found at the Pennsboro site in three or four hundred gallon dug there which i have seen.

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:)

I'm not sure which year. I could probably find out. .

The care package you sent actually had a lot of Pennsboro Alleys, including some tater bugs and chalkies.

And then it baggies with smaller amounts labeled Ravenswood, Jackson, Heaton, Cairo Novelty and Champion. From 10 to 15 in each of those baggies. :)

Found the date! It was October 2008. Searched my email for "chalkies" and there it was. :thup:

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Ann your two above--the green/white and red is Ravenswood. It is named Ravenswood Christmas Tree. They and piceces of them have been excavated at Ravenswood during the last five years. The second one green and coral is Alley. Are found in Larry Alleys collection,in Frank Sellers collection and excavated at Alley Saint Marys site the last two years.

Wow! That's fantastic news! And for the Christmas Tree (great name) a happy end to a trek that started it out as Alley (sold to me as one, although I was skeptical), then was ID'd as Champion (not by me, not being a Champion scholar). Very, very happy to put it with my Ravenswoods, and move the Coral to Alley!

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Yes the three far left are considered Champion with what is known today. I have thoughts that the more blue and dark purple swirl may someday be proved Alley ? How time flies 2008 almost seven years ago. The first chalkies i ever dug were probably 2006. I dug what i thought was Champions in about 2001-2002. My partner and guide back then said they were Champion and we were near the Champion site. So i labeld them Champion the best that i knew at the time. But time has passed and i have learned more every year. More new collectors the last few years asking questions searching. More and new site diggers the last few years. More past employees speaking up the last few years,etc. More past owners and workers family members involved. More information opinions thoughts etc than in 2002 or even 2008. But i am much more hesitate in giving my opinion for identifications. More hesitate in passing along new recent information.

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Could the first one be CAC ?

It's entirely possible.

Plus, last night, I was checking the marble to be able to confirm to Edna that the white was indeed very opaque, and after putting new batteries in my loupe-with-a-LED, took a look with that for the first time. Was a little shocked to discover that what I had perceived as green and white ribbons were not that at all. The marble is very nearly filled -- packed -- with thick, white, opaque ribbons, all in a base of transparent green. It just so happens that the deeper layer of ribbons is at pretty much the same level, giving the appearance of a uniform green -- except where the "diving" shows a darker transparent green. In character it reminds me of some Ravenswood marbles I have.

I forgot to check Alley's book. Dumb.

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The swirls search contiues after many years. I am headed for 66yrs old i hope. Don't know how long i can keep going ? But new people are now on the hunt and more information will happen. After a few years of listening and asking. This past Sunday myself and two close friends got to visit a location to dig marbles. For the past five years or more the only marbles dug there by two or four others have been 95% known Alleys. A few odd unknown not seen before ones turn up. For now they are consdiered Alley. Not the best day to dig at 92 degrees the highest heat index we have had for years and no air moving at all. On a hot summers day. Up a hallow in WV chasing old marbles for six hours..

I can only do two pictures per post. Click to enlarge.

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