"Victory Marbles Box"

[akroorka]

Ok, Victory I like—Fakes I do not.

Here is another box that grabs me by the ears.

It is a kind-of common box that has been altered with the” Victory Marbles” stamps.  I know that I have seen one or two of these before so it is not a one-off. I believe that these are Vitro marbles with a lean towards Akro---well I think that they are Vitro and wish that they were Akro, let me come clean on this.

Give me your opinions positive or negative—I like them all.

Marble—On!!

[Ric]

I have the same box with the same marbles. I was thinking Vitro too. But to me, the "Victory" label suggests production shortly after WWII and the marbles seem quite a bit newer. One of the reasons I think Vitro over MK or Akro is because of the number of marbles that have seams that are offset by 90 degrees.

[akroorka]

Well,

I am not so sure about the marbles being "newer"--they are a far cry from the run of the mill "all reds" that we are all familiar with. I would not consider these to be a "brushed patch" or a "veneered patch". There is some depth to them that cry's out "I am older" to me.

I have little doubt that these boxes were "doctored", by whom and when is the question really. It took some thought to place the stamped letters as they are. Perhaps they were over printed flat before they were filled.

Post yours for comparison please.

I will put them under the scope and get back to this subject.

Marble--On!!

[Ric]

10 minutes ago, akroorka said:

I am not so sure about the marbles being "newer"

I assumed they were intended to commemorate the end of WWII. By "newer" I mean well after 1945 when WWII ended. Perhaps they were commemorating an anniversary of V-Day?

[Akro75]

Didn't akro have a #250? box with a bag marked with a "V" as well? 

I think those mibs in the victory marble box are vitro as you guys have stated. 

 

[Al Oregon]

In the past, early 2000's, someone had mentioned Jackson for the R, W & Blu marbles in that box.  I do not know Jacksons well enough so....?  The Jackson pics that I have do not show any even close to those.  So, probably the Vitro possibility. I have two of those boxes - same type marbles.

[Ric]

7 minutes ago, Al Oregon said:

In the past, early 2000's, someone had mentioned Jackson for the R, W & Blu marbles in that box.

Jackson is entirely out of the realm of possibility, IMO.

[akroorka]

I saw the same post as I was researching this box Al and I am glad that you bought it up.

 For me to ID a Jackson would like me growing pineapple in my Wisconsin garden--just isn’t happening. I did think HMMMM I wonder though—maybe I should try Pineapple. I also saw one identifying them as 40’s vintage—I dismissed that as well.

There are enough of these boxes held in collections to raise the issue. I am sure that everyone that has one has wondered about them—time to rattle the tree. Lets hear more!

Marble—On!!

[akroorka]

15 hours ago, Akro75 said:

Didn't akro have a #250? box with a bag marked with a "V" as well? 

I think those mibs in the victory marble box are vitro as you guys have stated. 

 

There were a few different versions of the Akro "Victory Pouch" The one that I think is the most rare is the one with Morse Code Below the big “V”, dot dot dot dash for V. I think that it is hard to determine which box these really belonged in. I have seen them in many different types of Akro boxes.

Any info on this will most definitely fit into this topic as well as any insight into the Vitro Victory Net Bags.

Marble—On!!!

[Ric]

It seems to me the vast majoriry of Vitro Conqueror and Victory mesh bags have veneered marbles in them. These look more like Parkersburg Vitros to me.

Al would likely know how true this really is.

[akroorka]

OK,

So I discovered what the weird ink reminded me of on this “Victory Box”--- mimeograph. Here is a flat or unused version of the original box before the letters were applied. I do not see this going through any type of a mimeograph machine—it is just too thick—the box would not have survived without a bend in it. It is still a possibility though depending on the size of the roller.

I checked out the letters and the alignment of such from box to box that we have been provided with here and on the net and it looks like they all came from the same typeset.

I do not think that a “hand stamp” was used and the letters may have been silkscreened on the flat boxes. Probably quite difficult to do with an individual box like the one that I have shown. The dimensions between the letters seem to be consistent although they are in a variety of positions in the boxes diamond areas. The ink quality/color may have been a sign of the times.

I have a few more discovery’s to share on this subject----

Marble—On!!

[akroorka]

So,

As I often do, I researched the ink used on this box in-house under a variety of close intense observation methods and lighting. Behold—these marbles light up very nicely under UV light—not what I expected, I should have known better. I research the box and not the marbles.

Check yours out and give the results please. My images do not do justice to the glow.

I have several of this type of box without the “Victory” stamp with different types of marbles and they all light up like a “pre-war” marble should. These boxes may be older than previously thought.

Research rules and Marble—On!!

[Ric]

11 minutes ago, akroorka said:

Behold—these marbles light up very nicely under UV light . . .

Mine do too, but I am not too sure how reliable UV glow is for determining age. Lots of newer marbles glow.

[akroorka]

Pre-war glow is just different but you will get no argument on the facts from me—just a new factoid.

Here is a great example of what we all can agree to on age factors. These “Fisher Jewel Trays” are something that have always caught my eye—this one kind of blows my mind.

I just discovered this today. I have posted this set before but with an antique—lol  camera from 2012.

The one at the bottom right of the tray has no indication of glow whatsoever from all angles. The marbles that are loose are from a tray that was smooshed and missing a few. They all look the same under natural light.

Lets see some more “Victory”

Marble—on!!!

[Ric]

1 hour ago, akroorka said:

Pre-war glow is just different but you will get no argument on the facts from me—just a new factoid.

I did a lazy experiment - no counting or statistics. I went into my helmet drawer with only a UV light and picked out a big handful of glowers. When I turned the light on I found that I had chosen marbles with a wide variety of base and striping colors - some of them were RW&B like you show. Next, I selected a big handful of RW&B ones. I looked at them with the UV light and less than half of them glowed.

My point here is, that I am not sure what your point is. lol

[Ric]

Here is a 30 count mesh bag of Vitro's Victory Agates

It contains what are commonly referred to as Conqueror marbles. The marbles are all veneered and none of them react to UV.

Unfortunately, I can't seem to locate my Conqueror bag at the moment.

[Mr Meteorite]

I have a couple of the same (identical look) mibs in the OP. The were both IDed as being most likely akro. I didn't get them in a box, but in a lot. 

I'm leaning towards akro on the RW&B mibs. Only bcuz of the ones I had IDed on AAM.

I really really enjoy threads like this, im learning quite a bit.

[akroorka]

Thanks for the ideas on this one Mr Meteorite.

I am not always convinced by my own experience and always welcome anyones insight or ideas on anything that I might post. I have seen enough Akros to always consider the alternative to the instincts of the masses.

Keep on marblin and keep on expressing what you know to be in your own experience. I would love to see these marbles in another format other than the boxes that we are discussing--bags, boxes, nets--whatever and whoever may have produced them.

If you are into research, you know what I mean--believe until you are convinced otherwise.

Marble--On for sure!!!

[Ric]

5 minutes ago, akroorka said:

I would love to see these marbles in another format other than the boxes that we are discussing--bags, boxes, nets--whatever and whoever may have produced them.

@Al Oregon Have you seen marbles like the OP in any Vitro packaging?

[akroorka]

Thanks Al,

If you have some please show them. These are the only examples that I have seen--the ones in the OP

Marble--On!!

[Ric]

FWIW and AFAIK, Vitro moved from Vienna to Parkersburg in 1945. Because of glass and material shortages during wartime they produced many of the less expensive veneered marbles during their last years in Vienna. It seems that many of these marbles wound up in Conqueror and Victory mesh bags. I wonder if we are looking at very early Parkersburg Vitro production, from shortly after the war ended, when cardboard and plastic would become more available and the quality of their glass began to improve. Maybe these marbles are the precursors to, or beginnings of, the All Red lines.

[akroorka]

This is it my Friend,

Folks willing to break out of the box and do research and give ideas on even the lesser valued items of the hobby. It is the least that will give credence to the best.

Good work and a great direction to go in.

Marble--On!!

[wvrons]

I think you are correct Ric. I think they are early All Reds. I wish Blaine or Louie were still with us, they could give us the answer.  They are plentiful around here. But I have not found them in original package. 

[Al Oregon]

Here is a bag that is close to the ones in the OP.

 

[Ric]

1 hour ago, Al Oregon said:

Here is a bag that is close to the ones in the OP.

Thanks a lot, Al. They do look fairly similar. Nice bag too - seeing the "Pride" slogan in script is less usual, I think. I get the feeling it's an older bag. One of the things I have noticed, is that the older All Red style marbles seem to have smaller color patches with a lot more white showing between the patches. A lot of the newer All Reds are closer to half and half with a much thinner ribbon of white showing between the patches.

Does this seem to be generally true when you look at the All Reds your collection?

Thanks Again!