AKRO Left-hand Twist Corks

[cheese]

Thank you for sharing this. I have some factory Akro boxes, I hope tonight to have some time to check out each marble and pay more attention to patterns that reflect anything related to this discussion. 

[schmoozer]

33 minutes ago, Shamrock Marbles said:

Here is the other ensuing patent (US1828229):

There are a few things to note here:

1) Gone is the "reversing" cup claim as stated in the prior art.

2) The mechanism is much simpler and less prone to drive failure.

3) Spinning Cup speed is constant, unidirectional and not dynamically changing during operation.

4) The Pitch Diameters of the Pulleys (Item 12) are adjustable and can deliver a range of rotational speeds.

5) The "Inventor" is no other than Gilbert C. Marsh.  The President of the Gilbert-Marsh Shoe Store!!

6) The marble machine silhouette is the machine used at Akro.

-John

Shamrock Marbles

 

Did you just knock us back to square one???

I have a group of 7 moonie based blue corks that I bought in a large lot. The only “same-run” group in the lot, they are all left-twist.

[Tommy]

This is marble history in the making . Great marble minds decifering 100 year old trade secrets.  

The crew Akro would be looking for us with the sledge hammers .lol 

Awesome thread thanks to all ....keep the gray matter sparking 

[schmoozer]

34 minutes ago, schmoozer said:

Did you just knock us back to square one???

I have a group of 7 moonie based blue corks that I bought in a large lot. The only “same-run” group in the lot, they are all left-twist.

[Tommy]

I imagine the marbles going down the shoot after the rollers into barrels. 

So there are barrels and barrels of marbles . Some from the left turning cup some from the right.mabye a shoot likely linked the mulitiple sides into one barrel ? Did they scoop the marbles to fill orders. Weren't they pumping them out at a ridiculous rate. 

[Shamrock Marbles]

1 hour ago, schmoozer said:

Did you just knock us back to square one???

I have a group of 7 moonie based blue corks that I bought in a large lot. The only “same-run” group in the lot, they are all left-twist.

No, that was not my plan.

It should be understood that the patent does not describe how the invention shall be effectively used.

It wouldn’t take a great leap think that the operators/maintenance people would alternate the spinning cup direction periodically, so as not to wear out the gears or spinning cup. You could effectively double the mechanism life if properly switched. Think about rotating your tires.

The motor direction could be easily changed using a reversing motor starter, which was common technology at that time.

-John

Shamrock Marbles

[schmoozer]

4 minutes ago, Shamrock Marbles said:

No, that was not my plan.

It should be understood that the patent does not describe how the invention shall be effectively used.

It wouldn’t take a great leap think that the operators/maintenance people would alternate the spinning cup direction periodically, so as not to wear out the gears or spinning cup. You could effectively double the mechanism life if properly switched. Think about rotating your tires.

The motor direction could be easily changed using a reversing motor starter, which was common technology at that time.

-John

Shamrock Marbles

Understood, but that implies they intentionally shifted between right/left. Why would they want to do that? I don’t think “equity” was a thing back then🤣🤣🤣

the tire wear analogy seems a stretch maybe? 🤔 

[schmoozer]

6 hours ago, akroorka said:

Great info for sure. My head is spinning⚙️.

There had to be much larger "spinner cups" used in the production of "Akroware" I have seen no discussion on the topic anywhere but the way that much of the akroware looks it must have been a thing, just on a much larger scale and slower of course.

I have always believed that "eyelashes" were a result of worn shears or cutoff knives. There are many corkscrews with eyelashes and I supposed they--the eyelashes disappeared after some refinements in the cutoff process. I have watched some Chinese production videos where the shears look like they will never dull.

Long runs were made of corkscrews and shutdown to replace the shears meant time and production lost along with money spent. Good thing for us--I love a good eyelash on an Akro.

Great discussion.

Marble--On!!

Good point on spinner cups. Here is a big slag with the “rams head” pattern.

[akroorka]

Here is the thing with slags.

They were single stream marbles and I doubt that a spinner cup was involved in the process. At first they were hand gathered, later on they were machine made with similar results, or at least close.

The glass in the furnace was filled with the same mixture as the resulting slag. plop cut, plop cut, plop cut, right onto the rollers.

No multiple streams were involved such as it took to make a multicolored swirl (which is what a corkscrew is without the spinner cup involved)

Now, I realize that CAC produced only single stream marbles---but that is a whole different story.

Marble--On!!

[schmoozer]

So, how do you explain the rams-head slags if there was no spinner cup?

[wvrons]

I have stated it for years the rams head pattern comes from incorrect spin of the glass glob in the roll groove. It has nothing to do with any spinner cup or corkscrew pattern. It can happen on slags, or with any machine made marbles. I have seen it on all machine made marble companies marbles even newer ones at Jabo, Sammy;s and DAS. The rams head pattern is a error a mistake. 

[wvrons]

Corkscrew pattern can be made by single stream or multi stream methods. Corkscrew pattern routinely steady standard production required the spin from the spinner cup that only Akro had. 

[schmoozer]

31 minutes ago, wvrons said:

I have stated it for years the rams head pattern comes from incorrect spin of the glass glob in the roll groove. It has nothing to do with any spinner cup or corkscrew pattern. It can happen on slags, or with any machine made marbles. I have seen it on all machine made marble companies marbles even newer ones at Jabo, Sammy;s and DAS. The rams head pattern is a error a mistake. 

Ron, Thank you for the clarification, I have never heard that before. I do not actively collect Jabo or DAS, need to do some research.

[schmoozer]

2 hours ago, schmoozer said:

Ron, Thank you for the clarification, I have never heard that before. I do not actively collect Jabo or DAS, need to do some research.

Ok, did some thinking on this from an engineering aspect. I have a BSME (1985), and have specialized in forensic analysis for 20+ years. I am a Reaganite….”Trust but verify”.

the rollers are synchronized via direct gearing, so how can they produce an “incorrect spin”? If one both rollers spin in the same direction, they would destroy themselves? They are designed to mesh together, if both reversed direction, the marbles would not travel down the incline but try to climb up into the incoming stream, resulting in a large glob of Milton glass.

appreciating your response…

Brad

 

[Shamrock Marbles]

7 hours ago, schmoozer said:

Ok, did some thinking on this from an engineering aspect. I have a BSME (1985), and have specialized in forensic analysis for 20+ years. I am a Reaganite….”Trust but verify”.

the rollers are synchronized via direct gearing, so how can they produce an “incorrect spin”? If one both rollers spin in the same direction, they would destroy themselves? They are designed to mesh together, if both reversed direction, the marbles would not travel down the incline but try to climb up into the incoming stream, resulting in a large glob of Milton glass.

appreciating your response…

Brad

 

You only gave yourself 3 hours to ponder.  😃

Anyhow, I will let Ron speak for himself, but I think he is trying to convey that the marble didn’t completely spin/rotate on multiple axis.

The whole concept of a marble forming machine is to rotate the glass gob on multiple axis as it cools.  If the gob doesn’t do this, you can get multiple varieties of errors, of which, a rams head is one.

-John

Shamrock Marbles

[wvrons]

Total correct. It is not the actual roll spin speed etc. It is the glass glob being to small, to large, to hot, to small, glass buildup on the roll,  etc. The hot glass glob needs to spin constant in all different directions on its own axis in each and every groove of the roll. If it spins to many revolutions in one direction it can end up a rams head or other odd pattern. Or out of round, or roll marks, or egg shape, or many abnormal things. It is a error a mistake non standard production. A shear problem can also cause the glass glob to be abnormal and then it will not spin correct. There are many variables with every step of machine made marbles. Everything is hot, moving equipment, timing, on and on. One item gets off and the marbles will change. Not one but several at 250 a minute until the problem is corrected. 

Sorry about that. It is some part or the glass stream or glob that goes bad.. Not the marble machine rolls.  The marble machine just makes the hot glass glob round. The rolls do not make or change the pattern of the marbles unless there is a error, non standard production.  The rams head and other odd twist and patterns on most marbles, especially on one or both poles, other than intended swirl type, are errors, non standard production.    

[akroorka]

Here are a few videos for you fellow marble and glass geeks.

The first one shows a cool three roller set up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqQK5JY31qM

The second shows some extreme angle to one of the rollers where the glob drops. The angle changes as the roller gets nearer the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vshsp0GQE90

The third is a Jabo video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xLgJ0ZajrE

These last two show some bottle making in India using a hand gathered process, and a more modernized approach somewhere on earth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuvZqzvJ1II

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_M8WBJMcM0

Marble—On!!