Steph

Definitely a nice way to look at it.

Do you know what the end of that box said? The only tri-onyx label I recall seeing is the one pictured in the Hardy book. Before the popeye boxes came out, I suspect the usual way retailers were shown tri-onyx akros was in the Specials compartment of the sample cases. Popeyes seem to show up there a lot, as do ades, and various other types. On my parallel track, the packaging I see Sparklers in tonight: the Sparklers compartments in sample cases, a Sparkler Agates stock box (Hardy book), in one column of an Akro Special box (Hardy book), and two different Spiral Agates stock boxes (one from the Hardy collection and one Buddy posted - the Hardy box has half sparklers and half spirals).

Don't know if this is true but it's a cute story. (click to enlarge)

I'm totally not psyched up for reading patents. I made it through one page of #1927650 and then left my body. I heard someone screaming and then I found myself in a corner on the far side of the house. uh ... well not that bad but .... I think I need a chart to have a hope of keeping track of the dates. Translucent makes me think of acme realers, which also have feathering. But I am aware that translucent sometimes meant different things to people in the first half of the 1900's than it does to us. You could be correct about it referring to slag glass. I'm with you about 1928 seeming earlier than is typically associated with patches. It seems a little late for slags though. I"d have thought that it was even late for gobfed slags but I don't know. Is it your position that 1928 would be about when Peltier moved from hand-gathered slags to gob fed ones? Or something more subtle and/or more technical than that. There is one more thing I'm keeping in mind, namely that some patents have been awarded for machines which never were used.

Happy Boday Birth, I mean Happy Birthday Bo. Have a great one!!!!!!!!!!!!

hmmmm ... no more dog people? No more hamsters? No parakeets? Not a pet grizzly in the bunch? C'mon, we're not that scary ... just because we forgot to file our fangs, don't let that worry you ......

scrumptious! I'll take it!

Thanks Al. So there was some variety of box styles and colors. With the variety it makes me wonder why they seem so relatively rare now? Was it because kids who bought them were serious players and got right to using them? Or coz they're old? Or coz in spite of the variety Akro didn't make that many? The filigree looks sort of like the trim on Akro flinties or moonies boxes, and the cartoon boys look like the same style as in the Big Time Marbles comics/ads in Boys Life in 1931. Hmmm, Ringer boxes really are old, aren't they. LOL But seriously, those are some early sets. Gosh, "marble set" is so very generic. And 'ringer' would have been pretty generic too back then. This probably isn't going to be an easy box to find in ads. I see a December 1933 ad for a "marble set". Says it contains "highly colored marbles" and a chamois bag. "Highly colored" sounds like a good description for popeyes. Of course I know there were other options for "highly colored" marbles in 1933. Just thinking aloud! Sunbursts, sparklers .... sparklers? ... oh no, I just blew a fuse. It suddenly dawns on me that I don't think I've ever seen what sort of packaging sparklers would have been sold in. Only a salesman case and a stock box.

p.s. The Picture Marble Company? Cooool. Totally new name for me. And the Fleischer Art Service would be Max Fleischer's company, I suppose. Any thoughts on whether the picture marbles "jewelry box" was sold to the public? Or distributed only/mainly as a sample box to business owners?

Morris Rosenthal patent(s) Of course, Berry Pink's compartment bag patent belonged to the Rosenthal company. And then Morris Rosenthal is the inventor on this one. This is a cellophane package. Patent number: 1983499 Filing date: Jan 20, 1934 Issue date: Dec 1934 Inventor: Rosenthal Marble Package Rosenthal trivia: As a jobber, Morris Rosenthal apparently had his foot solidly in the door of the marble business of the USA. For at least a few years. Not sure how long he stayed at the door or whether he really committed to walking over the threshhold. His brother Benjamin was HUGE in the playing card business though. Benjamin was even more of a king in cards than Pink was with marbles. LOL ... yes, that's totally off topic. I just happen to find the Rosenthals intriguing. I can't help suspecting that their success was a challenge to Berry.

Patents with Berry Pink connections (mosty not marbles) Patent number: 1872640 Filing date: Apr 22, 1931 Issue date: Aug 1932 Inventor: Berry Pink Assignee: The Rosenthal Co. Compartment bag for marbles or the like Patent number: 1945216 Filing date: Jan 10, 1933 Issue date: Jan 30, 1934 Inventor: Charles L. Dunham Assignee: one-half to Berry Pink Nut Lock Patent number: D113878 Filing date: Dec 10, 1938 Issue date: Mar 21, 1939 Inventor: Berry Pink Design for a pocket calendar Patent number: D125354 Filing date: Oct 21, 1940 Issue date: Feb 18, 1941 Inventor: Berry Pink Design for a display stand

Al, you just bumped Greenburg's back up my priority list. It had slipped off my radar. And thanks Mike!!! My best guess had put the comics as being made in time to release for the 1934 marble season, which could have meant a production of 1933. But I wasn't totally sure it wasn't later than 34. Mostly I didn't want to build some elaborate theory and then learn that someone knew the date for sure and all I had to do was ask. So many changes seem to have happened to Peltier styles in the 30's ... it would be (is) cool to have some specific dates to anchor other estimates.

been there, done it, where's my t-shirt? Just KIDDDDIIINNNNNGGGG. Thanks for all the work you do! Polls close Wednesday ya'll!

I have a few more pix to pull in. Things like a double compartment bag Alan sold this past year. It has a mixture of mibs in it, including some PPP's. (pretty sure) Maybe the "Sunset" box, coz of it's "tweener" look. Did it have peerless patches? gotta check. Maybe some ads. I have a cool 1939 illustration of a Morton Salt mesh bag. It mentions a variety of "glassies" including some "mottled". :-) But my eyes are crossing. I need a breather. :-) 'kay, here's that 1939 ad. now back to my breather (click)

Anyone have any hard facts or strong hunches about when the PPPs were made, with or without comics on them. I'm working on gathering together info on that. thanks.

Fwiw, those PPPs above are starting to look like "tweeners" to me. The transparent patches don't seem very NLR-like. And straighter cut lines are starting to seem "newer". Here's a close up of another example of what seems like a non-stereotypical PPP from a Marblealan auction. For more PPP examples, and for comparison to the comics above, these PPPs with the cubscout and spidey colors look particularly NLR to me. (box posted by lizzy, it belonged to someone getting her help with appraisal). Some of the comic PPPs are close to these but the range of patch shapes here seem maybe wilder and more "traditionally" misshapen than most of the comic PPP shapes above. (click to enlarge) Here's a box Charles posted. (click to enlarge) I saw something yesterday in a patent where Sellers Peltier (I think it was) MIGHT have been talking about globby patches as a bad thing. Maybe he didn't like the earlier wilder PPP patch shapes. I need to read that patent closely. I wonder if he thought Akro's patches were superior to Peltier's. Pure and shallow conjecture right now. I have to psych myself up to read the patents. (some pelt patents are linked here) Here, by the way, is a bag with rainbo era patches in it. I have ads which might place this bag in the late 30's. I'm presently working on organizing those to see how well the date might be pinned down. (click to enlarge) And here are some more comic PPP's. This box was listed for sale last year. I have another pic with some of the mibs rotated. I'll try to find that and add it here. (click to enlarge) My best guess right now for the "jewelry box" style of "picture marbles" packaging is 1934 or later, based solely on their part in the "bread for vitality" compaign. And maybe ready to go at the end of 1933, so they could be included in the 1934 campaign if that is the year they were released. A box like this one from fauxgoddess217 is shown in a circular on p. 139 of AMMM. The one in the flyer has a Cotes Master Loaf marble in it. That ad is where I first saw reference to the "eat bread for vitality" campaign. And 1934 is when that campaign seems to have hit the nation. (another thing to doublecheck) In 1934 there was a "Bread for Vitality" radio program even, and lots of celebrities were involved. Betty Crocker was doing a huge promotion, but looks like small bakeries had "Bread for Vitality" or "Bread Energy for Vitality" ads too. The campaign continued beyond 1934. But last night I left off my search about halfway through 1934. Lost energy. Maybe I need more bread. My best guess for the most NLR-looking version of peerless patches would be 1933 or earlier. My guess for the most classic-looking NLRs has been 1932 or earlier for a while now. Antoher fuzzy date. Something else I need to pin down my reasoning for. One last note for now: AMMM says there was a Herbert Hoover for president PPP, so I guess that would have been a 1932 version of marbles done by Angerstein's picture transfer process. Update: Mike just gave a definitive date. Definitely late 1933 on the picture marbles. Way Cool!

Results of a Peltier search. Haven't read them in detail yet. Patent number: 508748 Filing date: Jun 10, 1892 Issue date: Nov 14, 1893 Inventor: PETER V. PELTIER Machinery for rolling glass Patent number: 787588 Filing date: Aug 18, 1904 Issue date: Apr 18, 1905 Inventor: SELLERS H. PELTIER Art of working glass and mechanism therefor Patent number: 1927650 Filing date: Jul 21, 1928 Issue date: Sep 19, 1933 Inventor: Sellers H. Peltier Assignee: The Peltier Glass Company Method of and device for making vitreous objects (Is this the NLR maker?) Patent number: 1865787 Filing date: Aug 8, 1929 Issue date: Jul 5, 1932 Inventor: SELLERS H. PELTIER Assignee: THE PELTIER GLASS COM Device for making vitreous like objects Patent number: 1946879 Filing date: Feb 6, 1931 Issue date: Feb 1934 Inventor: Sellers H. Peltier Means for and method of making agatized bodies (Is this a regular rainbo maker? - discusses color markings on the surface of the marble) Patent number: 1972854 Filing date: Oct 13, 1933 Issue date: Sep 11, 1934 Inventor: George W. Angerstein Method of applying indicia to rounded surfaces of small radius (This is the patent for picture marbles.) Patent number: 2302886 Filing date: Sep 18, 1940 Issue date: Nov 24, 1942 Inventor: Sellers H. Peltier Assignee: The Peltier Glass Company Means for molding glass articles

Probably will regret not putting dates and sources LOL but for now, just the names to see how many in all I have. and I got a bunch all over the place. generally using the singular but not worrying about to make something singular if it is an ambiguous plural, but am putting variations as I find them even if they're only different by a letter. agate aggie alley, ally alloy blood alley blue alley boover boulder bowler bullocker chalk chalkie china Chinee, chiney cloud comma commie common commony croater crockeries crystal dogger (1879, a common) duck flint flintie glass agate glassies (not always clear marbles -- often that simply meant glass, any style) glazer immie jasper jug marble marididdle marvel meg mib mig, migg mivvie moon moonie mountain crystal muggy nicker nurdle onyx painted chow pig turd poteye pottery rainbo rainbow red sparkler (1914) Scotch pebble snot agate snottie, snotty snowflake solitaire marble steelie stone stone-glass stoney tar taw ticker white-alley, white alley, whitealley

More Rainbos: Marble King sold boxes like these in the 50's, though maybe with Alley swirls in them. My guess is that Peltier sold them in the 50's and maybe into the 60's. (The Marble King version looked nearly identical but it said Berry Pink Industries. I've never seen one except in an ad. Just think it's cool trivia, lol, so there ya have it! ) With the lid:(click to enlarge)

Here's an oddball. Took me forever to realize it's what some might call a 7-up. It's the mib at the top left of this pic. I thought it was a Marble King until one day the light hit it just right. lol

Lloyd, if you happen to see this ... what was the significance of the difference in construction? made at different times? the red one not authentic? just different, not necessarily significant? always curious - thanks!

Pictures expected to come soon, maybe mostly from auctions A "Champion Jr." bag from one of Marblealan's auctions to get started. Remember that the "Champion Jr." name was used for other marbles than Pelt Rainbos. Specifically, banana cat's eyes have been found in Champ Jr. bags. Pelt Rainbos were also found in marbles which said "Champion" without the "Jr." (click to enlarge) However, there are some who like to call some rainbos Champion Jrs. I think sometimes it's rainbos with a practically opaque base and two different color ribbons. Don't quote that. Just a general feeling I have, which I should confirm or revise at some point. There is one color combo for which the Champion Jr. name stuck particularly tight. I still call those Champ. Jrs. because I think the marble is cool and deserves a name. It's just my opinion though. :-) This is the one which most often gets the name Champ Jr., described in American Machine-Made Marbles as having "a dark transparent base with white and yellow ribbons." This photo came from the Land of Marbles: Other named rainbos: 7-up: "dark transparent green base with white and red ribbons" (AMMM) [space reserved for photo] Clown: "dark transparent base with red and yellow ribbson" (AMMM) [space reserved for photo] Muddies: What Kind Of Peltiers Are These? When I include quotations from AMMM, I only mean those as a starting point. These are purely collector's names and interpretations vary. Two Peltier names which collectors use somewhat differently from how Peltier did are Sunset and Bloodie. The name Sunset was used at least in 1931 (?) (need to doublecheck). It has been found on a box containing what I am inclined to call "Tweeners" -- those marbles which seem to come after classic NLRs but earlier than the more common rainbos. But the collector name is applied to rainbos with [reserved for photo] Bloodie is used approximately the same by collectors as it was by Peltier, but I believe that collectors tend to be more strict than Peltier was. Collectors tend to prefer to use the name for marbles with a distinctly translucent base. Peltier seems to have used it for a wider range of bases. The important feature to Peltier seems to have been the red ribbons, and I guess their contrast with a basically white base. (click to enlarge) Note: books can have errors. It is said by some that Acme Realers were a type of rainbo. There was apparently a Realer box found containing Rainbos with translucent bases. I do not konw whether Peltier ever purposely sold Realer boxes with rainbos -- perhaps they did -- but at least in the beginning Realers were a type of patch. An NLR-era or tweener-era marble, yes with a translucent base, but not rainbo ribbons.

The "common" marbles are always underfoot, until you need to see examples. lol Here's a thread for gathering together rainbo resources. As usual contributions are welcome. Other thread(s) dedicated to rainbos: A few pelts, Note: a few hundredDiscussion(s) of marbles which are sometimes called Rainbos, and sometimes thought to be from the National Line Rainbo era, or maybe hovering at the crossover from NLR to Rainbo: Nlrs Vs. Rainbos, Am I confused?See also, the rainbo section at Peltiermarbles.com: Peltier Rainbos And the Peltier section at ..... to be announced soon

Indeed. For the record, Pete made an interesting update to how the pastels came to be known as that: I'd assumed it was a company name. I don't think I was alone. Always neat to discover the origin of a name. (And thanks to Pete for setting the record straight before the details were lost in oblivion!)

March 31, 1952 Lawrence E. Alley passed away. (click to enlarge - might need to double click for full size)