Steph

I think I have most of the champs from national tourneys, on notes scattered here and there. Time to bring them together. I might even have photos of most of them, but I'll stick with the basics for now. 1922 -- the exciting saga which caught the national eye and led to the Scripps - Howard tourney [space reserved] (I actually posted a lot here, The Marble Wars of 1922 but I found some more since, and haven't quite sorted it all out. Sorry, it's a long download. I should edit my posts to replace the big pix with thumbnails.) Before 1922 -- [space reserved] After 1922 During my reading about tournaments, I was greatly impressed by the coverage -- and mentorship -- in Beckley WV. They make a great study in community involvement and support of youth. I also noticed that records were frequently forgotten. People in the 50's were credited with "firsts" which occurred in the 20's or 30's (first girl competing with boys at nationals, first negro champion). Smaller firsts and other records took less time to forget. Weird "facts" crop up too. On Dec. 17, 1966, in the Hartford Courant, it was claimed that Louisville used to be the site of the national marbles champ but no more, they said. Now it is in New York. (they said) Related web pages -- The National Tournament site: http://www.nationalmarblestournament.org/ Kings (and Queens) of the Ring: Page 1, Page 2 Mibs & Mibsters, by Paul Kerr, an article from the Beloit Historical Society Top marbles tourney rolls out the masters -- The 16th annual U.S. Marbles Championship was held in 2008. It is for adult players and former natioinal champs of any age. The Kimmell Family Online -- Rolley Hole Tourney pix, U.S. National Championshop pix, and pix of more than one national champ grown up. Generations of players hone their marble skills for spring's big tourney Life Magazine Pix at Google -- A lot of tournament pix. At least some are VFW. I need to learn how to use that tool. Wow. This is the Amish marble queen from 1949, from Life Magazine. How cool is she?! The Magic Bond, from 1955, Part I -- at minute 13 there is a little VFW marble tournament footage. There should be a whole VFW marble tournament movie "out there" somewhere. Hope the film was saved. :-)

Hey there Jill Marie!

Ray, in the realm of technicalities, what figure are you giving for the cost per unit? 17 cents? .17 cents? Is that for materials? Cost of transportation needs to be factored in. Most investors traveled to get them. If they were shipped by mail, then factor in significant breakage. The ones sold on ebay are handpicked. There's time cost involved in preparing them for listing -- pix and such. Then factor in ebay fees. And I suspect that most won't be deemed worthy of listing individually. That doesn't help your $300 investment. But I think $10 or even higher for some of the more choice examples isn't as outrageous as the cost of materials might suggest. I admit to some bias, of course.

Sue, it IS a clear base. Jeroen said so, and if you look closely at pic #3 you can see past the blue.

Or perhaps what Baumann calls a "Colored-Glass Overlay"? Edit: "Clear Overlay". Anyway, he calls them "Indian"-style marbles. The clear overlay is the one with a clear base. The colored-glass overlay has light- or medium-colored base. And after that come the maglites. What Baumann calls submarines have white strands just below the surface, usually in a blue or green base. p.s. Here's what Hansel said in a submarine thread:

A clear base which looks colored because of the blue lines? Could that be a mist?

An interesting spin on your original question is "who used the word oxblood" and closely related terms, and when? Historically what was "real" oxblood glass? One thing I know is that there is more info available than that which is common knowledge. Brian's Canal Fulton Glassworks link has some great keywords. He gives 19th century terms for the glass which we now most often call oxblood: brick red, Sang de Boeuf, sealing wax red, and simply dark red. The French Sang de Boeuf translates to oxblood. In Swedish the translation is more obvious -- they say oxblodsfärgad. Ox-blood red is also a term used in the 19th century, which may have been synonymous with sang de boeuf, at least some of the time. I sure would like to hear what the OED has to say about oxblood and related words. I used to have a good dictionary with dated etymologies but I don't know if it had the word oxblood. It was an abridged dictionary so maybe not, since oxblood has fallen out of common use. (Brian, do you happen to have the OED entry?) In the meantime I'll do what I do and keep jotting down notes on related source material as I come across it. Felicia, the link which you sent me for copper glazes in The Complete Guide to High-fire Glazes turned on a light for me. The term oxblood was coined in a completely separate setting from glass marbles. That's a given. So to understand historical oxblood it makes sense to study it in non-marble settings. Duh. :doh: I think we generally under-utilize the potential for non-marble items to teach us about marbles. For example, we don't often enough remember what we might learn about glass marbles from studying beads made with similar techniques. And in the case of oxblood, it appears that the source of much historical information will be from materials about pottery. Well, so far I know that the term oxblood, or at least the classier sang-de-boeuf, was strongly associated with copper-based glass in the 1900's. I don't imagine that it was always so strongly associated with any particular formula, but sometimes it was. Considering copper-based versions, I've seen a couple of references associating it with opaque glass. But I've also seen evidence which seems to suggest that one desireable version of copper-based oxblood may have been transparent. ? (edit: This is probably the reference I saw before to transparency.) And I've seen evidence that the process for creating oxbood was understood in scientific terms in the 1900's, as was the connection between oxblood and aventurine. The result of the process wasn't always tagged with the name oxblood, and I don't know when the opaque version was understood in terms of wavelenths of light, but it was understood at a technical level. Here is an 1871 example under the name of Hematinone on p. 3 of Vol. III of A Dictionary of Chemistry. Funny thing -- ox-blood is mentioned on p. 2, but it's really referring to the blood of an ox. Again, I realize that at least part of my musings will be a mere shadow of what Brian already knows thoroughly. But as I haven't yet seen quite what I want to know, not altogether at once, I'll keep musing.

1892 Fifty years and over of Akron and Summit County: embellished by nearly six hundred engravings-- portraits of pioneer settlers, prominent citizens, business, official and professional--ancient and modern views, etc.; nine-tenth's of a century of solid local history--pioneer incidents, interesting events-- industrial, commercial, financial and educational progress, biographies, etc. (1892) That has information about Martin Christensen's company, the Drop Hammer Forging Company, aka the Drop Hammer Forge Company. The official entry is small but the company is referred to at least one other place. I don't yet know if the book has info on marbles. I haven't done the search for that yet. Just trying at the moment to get some good screenshots of the text related to the Drop Hammer Forge co. Need to do that before I shut the computer down. The PDF version is a ginormous download, so I'm not saving it to my harddrive. Just going for the relevant screen captures. Something is said on the archive page about a date of 1887, but the year 1890 is given as the date of incorporation for the company, so let's stick with the 1892 as stated above. update: yes, there is info about marbles. Whoa! Before the American Marble and Toy Manufacturing Company started making marbles they made toy jugs. No surprise there. But do you know how many? It says they were so popular that within 3 years 30,000 were made a day. That's a bunch of jugs. Where are they now?

Big finish! wow

1877 Small mention but interesting. International Exhibition, Reports and Awards, Group II By United States Centennial Commission, Francis Amasa Walker Published by J.B. Lippincott, 1878 Item notes: v. 1-2 From page 257: 1851 Also, here is a brief mention of toy marbles in connection with the 1851 International Exhibition in England. The table seems to be a catchall list of imports to England -- or is that to the city of Hull? Don't imagine this to be "interesting" but who knows when it might turn out to be "useful". Official Descriptive and Illustrated Catalogue, Vol. 2, page 816 1853 Better: At the New York exhibition we see that E. G. Vetters, Jr. makes "imitation agate marbles in glass": Official Catalogue of the New-York Exhibition of the Industry of All Nations, page 135 By Association for the exhibition of the industry of all nations, New York Exhibition of the Industry of All Nations Contributor G.P. Putnam and Co Published by G.P. Putnam & co., 1853

1882 Glass in the Old World By Madeline Anne Wallace- Dunlop, Leadenhall Press Published by Field & Tuer, 1882 For one thing, it mentions "sealing wax red", that is to say, oxblood. 1900, reprinted 1907 Another result I found ... well, sort of found ... was Recipes for Flint Glass Making. Found it mentioned in the ad sections of different early 1900's books, for example, on p. 16 of the Catalog of Special Technical Books at the end of The Chemistry of Essential Oils and Artificial Perfumes (1908). The contents list mentions the "Sealing-wax Red". Also mentions "Dead White" with the parenthetical note that it would be "for moons". So, is this moss agate glass? Or moonie glass? Or something else? It's also in a 1903 book on Gutta Percha. The ad is on pp. 16, 17 of the catalog at the end, but maybe the Gutta Percha book would be cool in its own right. :-) 1899 Ah, here's one, Elements of Glass and Glass Making. By Benjamin Franklin Biser, Julius Arnold Koch Published by Glass and pottery publishing company, 1899 Copper red starts on p. 124. It has recipes. P.s., I got the keyword "sealing wax red" from Brian Graham's page here: Melting Oxblood or Haematinum red glass. Other keywords he gives, “brick red”, "Sang de Boeuf" and “dark red”.

p.s., Felicia, in case you weren't aware of this, even though the German ones are sometimes called Leighton transitionals, they weren't made by Leighton. There was a misunderstanding about where those originated.

Wow, hard to believe but today is the first chance I've had to read the thread. I didn't know my name had arisen. I think of Brian Graham as the man to speak on oxblood, since he makes it. Here is a nice discussion at one of his sites: Melting Oxblood or Haematinum red glass To some (especially in the non-marble world), oxblood is just a color. No restrictions on how the color is achieved. Of course marble collectors tend to be more picky. The key to "real" oxblood seems to be copper crystals of just the right size to block out light -- but not large enough to sparkle. (Already, and as always, I'm worried that I've said something wrong, because this is over my head.) Larger crystals would give aventurine. More about that is in the Jabo book. Adding aventurine is how the recent Jabos have gotten their oxblood, if I understand correctly, and yes, again IIUC, it was a surprise when it appeared during the tank wash on Nov. 27, 2007. Now it is done on purpose. MFC's formula for oxblood was purchased from James Harvey Leighton. Akro's formula was stolen from MFC, along with Martin Christensen's marble machine designs and MFC's client list. Tainted blood. I don't know where Leighton procured the formula. He was an American, from a long line of glassmakers, some well known for experimenting with glass formulas. But I am under the impression that James Harvey didn't, or didn't often, use oxblood himself. Oxblood formulas go back a long way. But why would Leighton have it, not use it, and then recommend it to Christensen? I'm still unsure about the "realness" of Alley oxblood, or Pelt. Some horsehair ox doesn't look quite right, but some of the "ox" looks very convincing to me though I presume it is accidental. My hunch is copper is involved in achieving the aqua glass shown here. A sweet swirl Gary posted, two multicolors of Carole's, one with similar colors from Marblealan, and another fascinating one of Carole's: Felicia, I've heard the "black filaments" are actually transparent green -- like some of the glass you see in Alan's pix. But both Alan and Brian mention black separately from green, so I am not sure.

oxblood I'll let Brian Graham explain it: Melting Oxblood or Haematinum red glass An important thing to know is that "real" oxblood is copper-based and opaque. The teeny tiny copper crystals are just the right size to make it opaque without being big enough to make the glass sparkly, if I understand correctly. It turns out that aventurine and oxblood are close kin. p.s. By "real" I mean the type of red glass found in MFC bricks, that is to say MFC's "American Cornelians", and in Akro's oxblood marbles. [edit: I put "real" in quotation marks because there are other things which can be called oxblood, but in general when marble collectors say oxblood, they mean Akro's version. And in general, in my experience, when they call other glass a type of oxblood they use a qualifier. For example, they might say specifically "Vitro oxblood" to let it be known that they are not claiming it is the same, but it looks close.] Some fab oxblood examples are posted here: Who Used Oxblood? About the word 'oxblood', I need to get my hands on some good dictionaries -- ones with good etymologies, including dates of earliest known usage. I can see from Brian's explanation that at least variants of the terms 'oxblood' had been in use before Martin Christensen started making American Cornelians, but when was the precise term 'oxblood' first used and in what circles? What about the term's near relatives? For instance, what about the Swedish term "oxblodsfärgad"? And what, for instance, does the oxblood used on ceramics look like? Webster's 1913 dictionary merely refers to the color, not the opacity, saying that "oxblood red" is "a dark brownish red". We can't expect much more in a dictionary for laymen. Also, that's a perfectly correct description for oxblood as used in non-glass settings. How was the term used in more technical works on glass and glaze? Somewhat random references deposited here for the time being: 1893: p. 264 of Pottery and Porcelain of the United States. More references specially to Chinese sang-de-boeuf: 1897: p. 335 of Journal of the Franklin Institute: The Chemistry of the Pottery Industry (Also has Chicken Blood) 1902: p. 346 of A Sketch of the History of Ceramic Art in China 1910: p. 27 of Hard paste porcelain (Oriental) China, Japan, Siam, Korea 1919: p. 775 of Chemical Abstracts: Notes on the "Sang de Boeuf" and the copper-red Chinese glazes 1980: Bulletin - Krannert Art Museum. p. 12 of this PDF refers to an oxblood-glazed line introduced in 1900 by Roseville Pottery in Zanesville, OH. The line is called Rozane Mongul. 1907: Streaks of pure ox blood (on an item in an art catalog) 1914: p. 81 of House Beautiful: The Altman Collection IV -- Old Chinese Porcelains 1948?: Optical Properties of Glass from Alamogordo, New Mexico. Oxblood color is mentioned on p. 3.

Bump because Jack got me thinking about BC's. Jack, this thread was originally for non-Jabo buttcracks, but some Jabos wriggled in as they are wont to do. I'm still hoping for some good Ravenswood and Heaton pix. I'm sure we can get BC's there. And I have a Jackson BC which I hope to get a pic of. Here are some Mid-Atlantic BC's PlanB posted. Made in 2001.

I meant the ones with the champagne base. I guess. I haven't seen the base color on all of them, but I presume it's champagne. I said red white blue because I focused on the ribbon colors. Some of the transarent red ribbons there are where I found lutz hiding. I'm not sure I've found it all. Need to change the setting. Put them on white paper instead of the more reflective bubble wrap.

The Edith Irene is definitely a stand out. The lutz is sorta sneaky in some of the red, white and blues. Lurking in/near the transparent red threads.

Oct. 10, 1915 Martin Christensen passes away. Charles takes over as head of the company.

1910 Sounds like MFC's, I think. You cannot tell them from the genuine agates. :-) (click to enlarge)

1910? Is this the catalog mentioned above? M. F. Christensen booklet: (click to enlarge) . . . . . . . . . . . . "Remember the name Christensen's. Known and used the world over." bonus material :-) A possible "travelers' sample box" recently sold on ebay. Found in an estate sale in Kentucky, across the Ohio river from Cincinnati, for $5. The 5/8" marble is missing but would fit perfectly if present.

1910 I think this is most of an article on MFC which appeared in a Canadian trade journal, Bookseller and Stationer. Volume 26, which I think was from 1910. Google Books only wanted to give me one "snippet" but I tickled it until it gave me three. A complete copy of the page should be available from Princeton by interlibrary loan through your local library. (Maybe I'll get one someday.) (source)

1909 Martin Christensen advocating for increased tariffs to protect the infant American glass marble and caster ball industry. E. Strobel arguing against. Tariff Hearings Before the Committee on Ways and Means of the House of Representatives, Sixtieth Congress, 1908-1909, Vol. VIII, pp. 7881 - 7883 1913 Tariffs again. Martin Christensen contributes information. 62nd Congress, 3rd Session, December 2, 1912 - March 4, 1913, House Documents, Vol. 131, pp. 5205 - 5230 1917 This might be a reference to MFC. It's some company which makes marbles and caster balls, and exports some of their product. The Glass Industry: Report on the cost of production of glass in the United States, p. 392 There are other marbles references on other pages.

1948 Marble making machinery is mentioned in connection with the William J. Miller Company in Golden Progress: History and Official Program of the 50th Anniversary Celebration of Swissvale, Pennsylvania, 1898-1948. I hadn't realized he had his own company. Was he also affiliated with any particular marble manufacturer? The book online is broken into parts. The marble mention is on p. 81, found in Part 7. Title page: Part 2 (click to enlarge) Mr. Miller had many patents on glass. Plugging in the keywords, miller, glass and swissvale at the Google patents page pulls up many entries. http://www.google.com/patents?q=miller+glass+swissvale Leave out the word "glass" and you get bunches more. He apparently did a lot of work with pottery also. And had a "pottery engineering company", also in Swissvale? Here, I believe is the patent for what we call the Miller machine: Machine for Manufacturing Marbles and Similar Articles Patent number: 1601699 Filing date: Dec 12, 1924 Issue date: Sep 28, 1926 Which if any of his other patents might be connected with marble making? This one was a big deal, right? This is the famous Hartford-Empire patent? Process and Apparatus for Feeding Glass Patent number: 1942035 Filing date: Dec 20, 1929 Issue date: Jan 2, 1934

too fun!

Yeah, Griff, don't beat a dead horse. Just ID the marble three times (Post #7, #9, #12), then drop it and start another thread where you call people babies and idiots. You could learn a lot from Mama.