Steph

(((((((hugs)))))))

awesome

Some of the sites I've used: Newspapers Old Fulton New York Post Cards -- Search Over 7,486,000 Old New York State Historical Newspaper Pages New York Times Archives -- Article through 1922 are free to download NewspaperArchive.com -- a premium site with a lot of smaller papers [edit: I am able to access it for free from my local library's website. you might have that option also.] Google News Archive Search -- Another way to get to some of the old news articles. I like the "Show Timeline" option. Census, etc. Ancestry.com -- another premium site. This one has a two-week free trial period. You can do census searches here. Many other records are available. I also found I could get larger copies of the same newspapers I had found at newspaperarchive.com. If the large versions are available at newspaper.com, I need help figuring out how to get to them.Toy Catalogs Antique Toy Archives -- they have lots and lots of pdf files. Many marble ads can be found in unlikely places. I found a 1914 Akro ad in a bundle of ads devoted to toys with bells in themPhotos American Social History Online -- I posted some of the marble-related images here Books, magazines, etc. Google Books -- you can get to some technical resources here. Some are full-view. Some may be harder to access but usually you'll find a list of libraries which have them.There are more I need to remember, or stumble upon again. Some Google thoughts: Going to advanced preferences on Google to limit output to PDF format is one way to get a higher percentage of historical items in your search results. In Google Books, sometimes the texts are restricted to views of "snippets". You can sometimes tease out the bulk of an article with creative use of keywords. If you quote the first or last part of one snippet, and do a Google search on that, you might be able to ease your way into another snippet, and get more material to quote to ease your way into the next. One more thing to keep in mind is that if you find only a title on one site, you might be able to find a full view version of the same thing on another site. Google Books gives only a little peek at the report on the lawsuit filed against MJ Gropper and Sons, the suit where it was declared misleading to call glass marbles "onyx". However, regular google searches come up with the full text of both the report on the original filing and the report on the outcome of the case. Oh yes, don't forget about offline options, such as major libraries. One might call or email them if one cannot visit.

I just found a new one today. Later I'll try to add ones I've used before. Australian newspaper archive Not only is this a free resource but you might be able to help make it better. I did a search for "agate marbles" and got a 1925 article which was translated as Kcal Agate Marbles. That was exciting, because what I wanted to find was actually California Agate marbles. Wellllll, it turned out that what the paper had actually said was "Real Agate Marbles". A little disappointing but still a good find. And then after I made a note of it, I fixed the translation. The site invites you to do that. It was translated electronically in bulk, and now humans have a chance to fix the little errors as they come across them.

That mica could put an eye out!

All the pelts at once? definitely not! Say you sold the Blue Galaxy separately, and only gathered your semi-rare Pelts into one lot. Say the best one in the lot would get $100 if you sold it on it's own. I hope you'd get at least the $100 for the group, but you can't be sure. Some people would lay out. Possibly because they expect the competition to get too rich for their blood. Possibly because they wonder why you would sell such nice ones in a group. Putting them together means the one who has the money for the best one might get a whole lot of bonuses. Splitting them up will let more people participate. just my opinion! p.s. good luck! I hope you do well.

Bump, in case the right eyes didn't see it before The main question is just whether Akro had White Onyx before MFC. No need to worry about the 47 others.

A few "last" notes on the company. By "last" I mean I don't anticipate making another post soon. If I find out any other little things, I'll edit this post. Note 1: Early in 1930 and late in 1931 the LA Times and a Hayward CA paper referred to the business as California Onyx instead of California Agate. I don't know if that reflected a formal name change or if it was just what the locals called it. They made the news both times because of thefts. The articles mention values of the marbles involved. The values are low compared with the 1923 sales figure in Nebraska. I don't know if that reflects a decline in retail prices, or if that was a wholesale figure. (update: I have a little more info on that. Some ads from the 1930's. I'll consider incorporating them here.) (Another update: yes, in the 1930's and afterwards, the business was known as the California Onyx Company.) Note #2: G. D. Mitchell was George Douglas Mitchell. Born in 1885 in Dublin Ireland. He died in Los Angeles in 1945. Frankie with the 3000 choice agates was Frank Doig Mitchell. Born March, 31 1920. He passed away on Sept. 11, 2001. George Mitchell is NOT the man in the photo in the original post. The man in the photo is not Frankie's father. Perhaps he will turn out to be named R. W. Walker after all. The biographical blurb about Mitchell in the December 1924 LA Times article about the history of the company isn't quite accurate. Might just be a matter of dates, but mostly it means that I wouldn't take the LA Times as the last word on any details. Note #3: The mysterious realtor in Who's Who was Max J. Baehr, a retired diplomat. His position was "dir.", presumably "director", whatever a director would do. About the meaning of "director". I remember from Cohill's MFC book that corporate titles were used differently in the past from how we use them now, so I really don't know what to think about the title "director" as used in the 1920's. Something else to look up. Note #4: 'M T' was the right set of initials for the president of the company in 1924. He was Matthew Thomas Meagher, born in Mississippi in 1869. Census records give me the sense that his sales territory in 1920 might have been the Southwest in general. Perhaps between California and Texas. In 1910, Mathew T Meagher's occupation is given as "Merchant Retail Crockery". In 1920, it is "Supt. Wholesale China House". But in 1930 he is Tom M. Meagher and is occupation is recorded as "Salesman" for an "Onyx Works". I still have some more records to check about Matt / Tom. I got sidetracked trying to figure out what happened to his family. His ex-wife Amelia gained some prominence as a health worker in Orange County. A son was mentioned in the 1910 census but not later. Note #5: G. W. McElroy is still a mystery, and I'm not optimistic about finding more info. What would the job title of an "inventor" have been during the depression? Note #6: I think there was a treasury action in 1929 or so against the company. Did I mention that already? It had something to do with rough onyx, but I don't yet know the particulars or whether it was serious, or more of a nuisance. Whatever happened, George Mitchell stayed with the company. Note #7: I've found some newspaper ads which may be for Calif. Agate items. And then I have some ads which are definitely not for Calif. Agate items but rather for a "crystal-onyx" (glass) version of the real onyx items. The "crystal-onxy" name and its variations were supposedly nixed by the Federal Trade Commission in 1930 or so, but I think one of the crystal onyx ads may be from late 30's.

This link goes to a prospectus of Shri Balkishan Agarwal Glass Industries Limited. LONG document. 218 pages. 829kb. Link file address: www.sebi.gov.in/dp/balkishandraft.pdf I haven't read much of the document. I gather that it includes background which it thinks investors or some agency might find useful. On pp. 52, 53 there is information about the manufcature of glass marbles in India. I've quoted the section below and highlighted in red the parts about glass marbles. Basically it seems to say that glass marbles are made by small businesses. Also, it gives me the idea that marble makers might not be well-documented. The two sections of text about glass marbles are duplicates. No idea why, but maybe because this is a draft document. I just copied it as is. GLASS & GLASSWARES INDUSTRY The Glass Industry comprises of glass containers and hollow wares, tableware, flat glass (including float glass sheet, figured and wired & rolled glass), vacuum flasks, refills, laboratory glassware, Fibre-glass etc. On the basis of utility, the two broad market segments of glass industry are consumer glass and industry glass. Consumer glass is further segmented into tableware and container-ware, under tableware there are number of items like tumblers, ashtrays and bowls. Tableware segment of the Indian glass industry is dominated by the unorganized sector. Container-ware is mainly bottles, jars, etc. Industrial glass is mainly sheet flat glass. There are other end-products like vacuum flask and refills, glass beads, false pearls, optical lenses and clinical thermometers. The Glass industry in India has been de-licensed however items like block glass, glass beads except industrial beads, simple glass mirrors, glass bangles, glass hollow wares produced by mouth blown and/or semi-automatic process, glass marbles of all types and ophthalmic lenses manufactured from glass blanks are reserved for the small scale sector. The glass industry in the country comprises about 50 glass units in the organized sector and about 500 small scale glass units, who together produce a diverse range of products from marbles and mirror to glass containers, sheet glass, vacuum flask, laboratory glassware and fiber glass. The organized sector in this industry consists of 10 units of sheet glass manufacturers, 10 units of vacuum flasks/refills manufacturers and another 5 units in laboratory glassware manufacturing. Although the country at present is self sufficient in every aspect of glass and glassware manufacture and production, there is a need for modernization in the glass industry, to make it internationally competitive and technologically innovative. Background of the Modern Glass Industry in India The present day glass making industry in India revolves around a range of items from bottles, bangles, beads and glasses, to laboratory glass and scientific glassware. On the basis of utility, the two broad market segments of glass industry are consumer glass and industry glass. Consumer glass is further segmented into tableware and container-ware, under tableware there are number of items like tumblers, ashtrays and bowls. Tableware segment of the Indian glass industry is dominated by the unorganized sector. Container-ware mainly consists of bottles, jars, etc. Industrial glass is mainly sheet flat glass. There are other end-products like vacuum flask and refills, glass beads, false pearls, optical lenses and clinical thermometers. The Glass industry in India has been de-licensed however items like block glass, glass beads except industrial beads, simple glass mirrors, glass bangles, glass hollow wares produced by mouth blown and/or semi-automatic process, glass marbles of all types and ophthalmic lenses manufactured from glass blanks are reserved for the small scale sector. The glass industry in the country comprises about 50 glass units in the organized sector and about 500 small scale glass units, who together produce a diverse range of products from marbles and mirror to glass containers, sheet glass, vacuum flask, laboratory glassware and fiber glass. The organized sector in this industry consists of 10 units of sheet glass manufacturers, 10 units of vacuum flasks/refills manufacturers and another 5 units in laboratory glassware manufacturing. Although the country at present is self sufficient in every aspect of glass and glassware manufacture and production, there is a need for modernization in the glass industry, to make it internationally competitive and technologically innovative. Locational clusters in Indian Glass Industry Due to historical reasons some area of the country have developed expertise in a certain aspect of glass manufacturing which has resulted in manufacturing clusters in different parts. Some of the noteworthy glass manufacturing clusters are as follows: Banaras is the main center for the production of glass beads with Purdilpur, also being known for its black glass beads. Firozabad, in Uttar Pradesh, is known for the production of glass bangles and utilitarian glassware. An entire community of skilled craftsmen is located here and is engaged in making high quality glassware. Firozabad also produces fragile and lightweight glass beads. Tanjore has become famous for traditional ornate paintings made on glass using gold and depicting deities. Glass is a transparent product made chiefly from sand (silicon dioxide), limestone (calcium carbonate) and sodium carbonate. It differs in color and density depending on the addition of several other elements and oxides.

Just a spot to jot some notes. Might be gathered into something formal. Might not. First will be about India. I've seen other things which I thought about noting then didn't. Seeing the Indian publication made me decide to start keeping track of them. My searches have been focused on PDF files recently, so sometimes the links will be bandwidth intensive. I'll try to remember to give a heads up when links go to the larger files.

thank you :-)

The ones in the picture look worn to me. Of course antique clay marbles are not always worn. However, those do look worn, so I don't understand either what your customer is unhappy about. I have no idea if reporting anything to ebay will help you avoid a negative feedback. And if you get an unreasonable negative feedback, I don't know if there is a way to protest it. I'd like to know because I'd like to get back to selling and what I've been hearing about ebay has sorta scared me.

Did I say Christensen? Well, so did they. They being the B. Illfelder & Company, "sole agents for Christensen's Onyx Marbles". The date is January 1916. Charles Christensen was head of the company at this time. What would we call MFC's now if the Christensen Agate Co hadn't co-opted the name? (click to enlarge)

Thanks. I wouldn't have thought to try that.

This Master ad is from Jan 1931. I've posted it before but at the time I didn't realize how very early that was in the company's history. According to AMMM, the company started making marbles in May 1930 and first shipped in Oct. 1930, yet the ad is written as if they have an established track record of sales. "Preferred above all others by the marble-shooting 'stars' of boydom". I love it! (click on link below the thumbnail) http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o151/modularforms/Master/Playthings_Jan1931_ShootingStars.jpg Next comes a Christensen ad ... unless someone beats me in with someone else first.

Wow, Brian, do you remember if that box contained moss agate type patches? I've edited the image of the article to give my best guess for how it was intended to read. I'm not at all sure about the "assortments of 100 marbles ... containing rich shades of red and yellow" part toward the bottom. And if I'm right about Mr. Morris Rosenthal there, then I had guessed the wrong Morris Rosenthal. (Lots of Morris Rosenthals to choose from.) I know I have given Berry Pink a bit of a hard time for his exaggerations, and I'll likely sound that way again as I keep sorting through his story -- he's so interesting! But whatever I say, I find it easy to believe he was proud of the job he did in promoting marbles and that he did it well. Promoting himself was clearly a part of how he did the job. This article from Playthings gives a sense of what middle men such as jobbers and salesmen could do to help maximize the potential of their clients on both ends of the transactions. They had good ideas for retailers. With packaging innovations and good advertising they could help lead the market and open a lot of doors for the manufacturers. On the other end they could give their suppliers good ideas based on feedback from many retailers, and of course from many consumers. Pink became known for his hands-on research -- giving marbles away for free involved letting kids choose the marbles they liked. The story is told that this is how he knew that red was always a winner. Maybe that's why Pelt had two "big value" style boxes. One for the assorted colors and one just for Bloodies. Does anyone reading this know? Would Pink deserve credit for the Bloodies boxes? Those 100 count boxes couldn't be that, could they? 1932 was way too early, right? (click to enlarge)

Cool. 20 marbles. I wonder if that's closer to the dimensions given in the article. BJ, you wouldn't happen to remember the dimensions on yours? :-) Approximating the ratio of length to width I got a factor of 2.42 using the article's dimensions. Using pixel count, I got 2.52 on the Rosenthal box and 2.22 on the Rich box. By odd coincidence I got 2.52 on 2 different Rosenthal boxes. It's odd because you wouldn't expect two approximations to come out that close. Here's the other example I used. (click) (I do get about 2.4 on this view but the 2.52 came from a view with less distortion. lol.) ((Please someone save the day and tell us what the dimensions are for this style of Rosenthal box! ))

one more for tonight ... This company Millburn Mills, of Quidnick, RI, looked pretty serious. All 4 of these are from the June 1938 Playthings. But so far this one issue is the only place I've seen their name in connection wtih marbles. In a few years they'd be making first aid supplies for medics. Notice the "wide or narrow" mesh options. Marble bags did switch mesh sizes sometime in the 30's. Maybe those choices reflect the transition. Or maybe by wide Millburn Mills mean something super wide and it's not related at all. who knows.

Thought this was cool, even with the left side chopped off. The title might be, "Some Ideas in Marble Merchandising". (It looks like it should have some small word in front of the "Ideas".) There are definitely some other parts I wish I could see better, but for now --- (click to enlarge) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . For comparison (and some color) here's a Rosenthal box BJ sold. The story with it was that it was given to a boy at his 5th grade graduation in 1931. (4-vane cat a later addition of course) Sometimes the stories with the boxes are right! :-) That looks like a leatherette bag, no?, and the dimensions look like they could match. The marble count doesn't quite match but that wouldn't be the biggest typo I've seen in an old article this week. (click to enlarge) And here's the double-compartment mesh bag from Alan's auction. (click to enlarge a little) . . . . . . . . . . . .

Update: The June 1938 Playthings Magazine has a feature piece on Gene Byrnes, the Reg'lar Fellers cartoonist. He is launching a series of tie-ins and spin-offs of his newspaper comic. "Many interesting tie-ups in the toy field are now in preparation and, according to Mr. Lindner, will be shortly announced," they said. Mr. Linder had been the director of promotion for the 1939 World's Fair. 1939 would be a perfect date for the box. With the advertising already in full swing in 1938, the intent had to be to have the toys ready for the fair. Postwar is pretty much out of the question. I doubt the Reg'lar Fellers toy promotion survived the war. It would be well over 10 years from 1938 to the time when Japan would get back to importing toys under the label "made in Japan". I think that gives us grounds for a date estimate on the mushroom mibs -- late 30's, give or take.

I wondered if that was it. Having a showroom in 1950 didn't fit though. Turns out that 200 Fifth Avenue is "famous" -- to the right people I guess. Some sort of toy expo center I gather. Seems that it might have been evolving into something major in the 30's or 40's. No clue yet about how long people would have their showrooms for. Like for special toy events, or in season, or all year around.

No, I don't really have a candidate yet. This ad from March 1946 is the latest I've seen so far with box photos. But check out the "counter box" photo. That moss agate pic was first used about 15 years before. (click to enlarge) This March 1950 ad is the latest of any sort I've seen for them so far -- not counting the one for the sale of the property. What do we know about the Akro showroom in New York? Oh, I see they mentioned a showroom in a 1938 ad also, different room number.

Yup, still amazing on day 2! no, seriously, Carole, that's a fantastic piece.

Isn't it an early German marble? With the faceted pontil? I mean, it's not really a Leighton, is it? as in not really from a Leighton site?

December 27, 1925 brings news of a good year in Huntington Park. Calif. Agate has recently doubled their number of employees and added new machines. Though retailers sell marbles mostly in the spring and summer, the factory is making them year round. They find a growing demand for their products, which are now marbles, onyx radiator caps* and gear-shift balls -- marbles mostly east of the Mississippi, the other items mostly in Southern California. *I think that would have been knobbed ornaments, not the actual radiator cap.