Chuck G

Ann, its a pelt!! Chuck G--

Kabobam, good questions that many have thought of before and well worth discussing. Who drives the market and establish a value, (WE) do, why? In our passion for the hobby (we all) seek the more illusive round orbs that are harder to find or knowing these (certain) ones takes a long time to find. Do we buy from a dealer who (already) knows this and pay the price they set or wait to (HOPEFULLY) find one in the wild? I can attest to this fact, that the (MORE) marbles you look at the more you learn, when you go thru thousands of marbles a year. Which plain pelt "Rainbo" is better than the other and is worth more? Who knows for sure which one is more HTF to come up with than another one? Knowledge is (KING) in this hobby and (always) talking about the hobby and what is out there and which ones are better than the others is a necessity. The marble books coming out from the past and newer ones coming out today are getting much better for vital information wheather it be for the provinance or just plain great identifiable photos to look at. As one of my best friends (Clyde Tuller) used to say about "Rainbos" and "Peerless Patches", they should be a tad cheaper but finding the more raraer types should bring a better price. An example of this is the tracer family type, called the "Manderine Bee" or as Clyde called it the "Poisen Bee", a yellow base "Rainbo" with black ribbons edged in orange with some examples having light av whereas others no av. This specific pelt is very pretty and on the HTF side of plain "Rainbos" to find. Yes, the price of these are higher. Another example is the pelt "Manderine Zebra", white opaque base with black ribbons also trimmed in orange. These two examples are for (ME) much harder to find, so therefore these would fetch a better selling price. A hundred common marbles were made but (MAYBE) ONE changed, thats the one you want!! You have to LOVE the hunt, thats the fun part. Chuck G--

A few of the ones i have. Chuck G--

Egg-yolk yellow is a common term used and does vary in many shades (depending) on the base it lies on. Chuck G--

Marvin, i can attest to this fact with examples, that peltier had so many vaiations of the deep chocolate brown all the way to the very light light tannish colors. You may find many color combos with this varying base. Chuck G--

Marvin, (guessing) i feel like Steph does , sure looks stone to me also. The second photo looks to have missing chipped stone, maybe a hard limestone type. Chuck G--

Chuck, i welcome anything you send this way for some quality good discussions. This is how WE ALL learn more everyday, love it! My address is still the same, and thank you again my very good friend for the (KIDS) marbles you sent me, all of them loved the colors in them. I make sure (ALL) the kids that vist for our shows here GO HOME with a bag full. Afterall these wonderful kids are our legacy. Chuck G--

Duff, i can try to make a contact for you on Georges great wok, if you like, let me know. Pm me or e-mail me please. Chuck G--

Chuck, no name, but sure would love to see it in hand to see if it does fall into a certain (family) type. Chuck G--

Steph, this example is great and he has more posters. George and i are good friends and he has done some great work for the marble collecting community. George has been a great asset to this great hobby with a lot of his studing and compiling great provinance. He is a great friend and i look forward to more of his great documentation he may come out with. Chuck G--

Chuck, need more photos PLEASE!! I want a better look at this one, hard to tell?? Chuck G--

Darla, you and Stephs term "Tweeners" is great and i do also see stuff that scratches my head. When did peltier stop this run and went into the next newer types of marbles? They had many machines, (i think 13 total) and as the newer machines came into play, yes agreed that they wanted to save money and make the cheeper type marble for the profit margin. I love the discussions of the difference and when the NLRs were last made and into the Rainbos? I still struggle like most on what do we call it, an nlr or rainbo? OK, in my opinion, and some may dissagree with this. We all look for the HTF pelts, must agree with this with all the newer information coming out, including me which (drives) our passion to find and totally understand what they are? I kinda look at this way,with many many thousands of marbles i look at every day, that does it really matter wheather it be an nlr or rainbo if it falls into the VHTF catagory, the money is there once its talked about. WE ALL control the market by the information readly available from books to the shows to the web. Mon, for you, and your question. Sometimes i back away a little on the forums to give others their chance to ask and add their thoughst to great inquiries. Your photo that looks like and i agree an "Angel" but is truly (in my opinion) a rainbo "Tracer" type. The "Angel" family falls towards the nlr family, especially the swirly ones, (except) for some tweeners like Steph mentioned. The pelt "BaconnEggs" is still a great marble and sumwhat harder to find. I need to take a photo of a group of all tracer types and post it so you can see the difference. Peltier produced many many examples of this tannish/earthtone base glass with truly thousands of examples to find. I will always keep an open mind to change as well as newly found examples to expand the knowledge everyone seeks. As i mentioned some opinions and conjecture until i can positivly prove it with examples. Chuck G--

Bill, looks like i may have to take a trip east to (straighten) you out!! You have been in the (HILLS) way to long!! Chuck G--

Cheese, its called a pelt "Raspberry Malt"-a tannish/earthtone base with burnt reddish/brownish ribbons. Chuck G--

Mon, to answer your last post. Who really knows what varients there could have been made pertaining to the "Angel" family types. I see your point on the colors you mentioned of white yellow on a tan base. This pelt Bacon&Eggs is similiar to what you are talking about, Because if i am not mistaken this is an rainbo family type a later run than the "Angel" family which is much earlier. I will go back to the old post and reread it again and come back with some more thoughts. I do totally understand what you are saying and looking real similiar to the "Angel" family, then why not an "Angel"? One group an early possible NLR type and a later run a Rainbo type. Chuck G--

Mon, you and Darlas feedback is great and love this type of conversations which helps EVERYONE to understand the identifying factors to qualify a certain marble. We All have certain ideas and factors to what we have learned over all the years and lean in many directions towards certain marbles. The names help, some people hate names but its funny when they were born they were given a name, and we all have a certain look to each one of us, right! Just a point that is warrented to properly do the ids of marbles to be easily understood by all. Mon, your second to the last photo is one that i wanted to point out in the post, it is not in my opinion not an "Angel", this one is the one with the off whitish translucent base that many mistake for an "Angel". Dont get me wrong on yours, its still a very fine and sought after lookalike to the true "Angel". Darla is right also on (NO) white to any of the "Angels" also, even though there could be an example out there that does have some white to it, anything is possible. Mon, your last post with my old computor i cannot tell to good with these on the colors. The tannish/earthtone is a (have to) on the base glass. I agree there are many shades to this that can be found and i have seen some that do fall inbetween the translucent and tan base. Looking for the real nice rich tan that is unmistakable is what you want. All three "Angels" can be found with some searching and once in awhile they do come up for sale. All three are on the upper scale of HTF, green one the VVHTF. I have had a few of the "Red Angels" and sold or traded the extras. Now sizes of these will range also from the smaller 9/16ths sizes up to almost the 3/4 size. Another footnote: most of all of peltiers production runs was mostly these sizes because these three sizes went well in the kids hands. Mon, can you get a little better photo of the last ones posted. Chuck G--

Mon, go back to the other post please and this will continue. PLEASE ask if you want more info, this is what i have learned. Chuck G--

Mon, this is the best way i can do for you as in describing them. I sometimes take trips and do not get back to certain posts, i must appologize for that. To start with, the pelt "BaconnEggs i did not name, yes, its in the sumwhat "tracer" family but its one that is sumwhat HTF in this color combo. "Tracers" term came from Ottawa Illinois with two colors riding side by side, some white opaque color ribbons along side yellow ribbons, like mentioned above. Here is a list from easiest to hardest to find on the "Angels". "Red Angel"-a (dominate) tannish/earthtone translucent base with swirls or ribbons of (either) opaque or transparent yellow and red "Blue Angel"-a (dominate) tannish/earthtone translucent base with swirls or ribbons of (either) opaque or transparent yellow and blue "Green Angel"-a (dominate) tannish/earthtone translucent base with swirls or ribbons of (either) opaque or transparent yellow and green This is what i have found for most part and have seen others. For most part on the "Red Angels" the red is transparent red, and the yellow is opaque, mostly seen in the ribbon types. The "Blue Angels" on the blue i have seen both types of blue, opaque as well as transparent, and are both swirls and ribboned types. The "Green Angels" on the green is mostly opaque green and opaque yellow, most of these are the swirl types. A foot note: remember that some ribboned types can be swirled (looking) because of the machined rollers turning faster to make them look swirled. Another note: do not let a deeper translucent off white base fool you on these because i have seen examples that is really close to the vintage "Angel" types, but they ARE NOT the tannish/earthtone base. Hope this sumwhat clarifies this for you, and for most part most collectors seem to agree. Chuck G--

Mon, what was your question about the av? Also what was the post on the "White Angel"? Chuck G--

Sarab, Darla is right and that what we all call the akro "Bluebloods". This is where akro (overlayed) the oxblood redddish color over the blue color. A high intensity backlite light you will see this, especially along the edges of the colors. Chuck G--

Darla, you done very well sister, very well. You do not find treasures like this very often, good job!! Chuck G--

Darla, very very sweet pelt. These family types (MUST) always have and contain the base color of a tannish earth tone, no matter what the other two colors may be. This specific base color was used by peltier in many many types of production marbles. I think these three that everyone looks for in the "Angel" family names orginated from Ottawa Illinois, not sure of this but think so. Chuck G--

Darla, here you go, and some may agree with this and some may dissagree. Try to make this easy to understand. "Liberty"-a white (opaque) base with swirls or ribbons of reddish/or orangish colors, can be opaque or transparent, may have av "Translucent Liberties"-a translucent whitish base with same as above "Clear Liberties"-a completely clear bubbly base with the same as above. note: the base colors can be a different shade also but still lean on the same family type. There are many many "Liberty" types to be found, even up to the (six) ribbon type. I think and still wonder where the six ribbon types came into time frame provinance. Looking into the six ribbon type, the (only) two blue ribbons wheather they be opaque blue or transparent blue, (LIE) on opposite poles, one on left and one on the right, looking at it from the seam side, like the example shown on this thread. Hope this can be understood a bit better. Chuck G--

Steph, here is my take on this one, in my opinion. Let us all discuss this with open minds for deciding what it actually is. I see everyones excellent thoughts and ideas coming forth that WE ALL can learn from great thoughts. This is, i think peltier all the way first off so where do we go with this. Everyones input is very good and i can see all points leading in many directions. This is what i feel on this specific pelt marble. I would have to lay it into the "Liberty" family type but in the "rainbo" family. Why? What happened in production, was this and (i have examples), a white base rainbo with two blue ribbons riding on on half the marble and two (supposedly) red ribbons on the other half. Ok, the two red ribbons washed out to cover the half marble making it look wildly different leaning towards what we all call a "bi-fracate" halfnhalf very pretty marble. Now for possibly a Kokomo pelt machine made, a fine question and very well could be, but still a pelt machine made marble. These examples are very nice and do come in other colored ribbon type rainbos. Chuck G--

Darla, sure looks like it to me. Chuck G--