Jeff54

When I acquired this in early - to mid 1990's, I paid to much for a chippy B/C I'd thought it to be a Akro Oxblood. By the late 90's-early 2000's I figured it's an Alox. These days, considering all the WVS that were dig-up maybe; it's an Alley or Raven's. IDK anymore except, it's Oxblood floating on the surface of the West Veginny swirl pattern, and I always called it a 7/8" Sky-Blue Oxblood. Who do Ya'll think made it?

I would not be so sure on that Pittsburg. For 1 the blue are the most common, 2. they're all translucent simi-opaque white and 3. Oxblood is difficult to photograph and not all are as bloody and grainy in the most common Oxblood style Akro made. I just pulled this photo off the net for the 5 or 6 blue colored that's in it:

Yes, and the base is nothing like any MK. I mean, MK's white is pretty standard, bright and clean. IDK, but perhaps they were a special run contracted for a commercial firm, experiment or? There were quite a few popping up in Jill's dig, but, you know, lack of dazzle, sizzle, and pop, I don't think any collectors, including Jill, were interested in the least. Nor was I except, when cleaning and sorting it became obvious, they're not simply rejects. I've never seen any in the wild and yet expect; those who acquired the dirty bags from her, have them too. Which should also mean, there's probably plenty that's been dug by many others, but ignored.

The missed Marble Kings nobody noticed, wanted or knew existed: In the late 90's Julian was digging in areas that all were considered to be dumped from Paden city. She'd sell boxes of unsearched fresh dirt covered MK,s and these came in most. So, I assembled a set of each color: Black-grey, red, orange, green, blue and yellow. The base is not exactly white, rather an unusual light tannish-grey:

I'm inclined to go Vitro as I've never seen an Akro like this. Yet, I think it's a call for the Vitro crowd.

I was thunkin last week: "Cat eyes" Vitro did that. Peltier started it and at least, Banna's, you know? kind of look like cat eyes. Yet St Mary's Marble King two colored cross through resembles a Cat's eye more than any. Vitro came out with Caged Cats in bags that said: 'CAT EYES'. When I was a kid the only relation to those were, if I imagined it referred to Silvester and Tweety bird's cage. Otherwise, surely, it's way to late to change Cages and distance them proper, but, even as a kid I couldn't help thunkin: They ain't no danged cats in Vitro's Cage. 🤪

Over 20 years ago, before ebay integrated all the countries into one system, I had to use word translator to deal with ebay Germany and France or other country's sellers. I would need to send cash because paypal wasn't availed as well. I also needed to instruct sellers how to ship via Deutsche post (DHL) without costing and arm and a leg, otherwise DHL would rob you unless you did it right. That all was a bit tricky especially giving comprehensive instructions in using DHL and sending cash was risky.. Anyways, while I could never prove these were made in France, that's where the majority these 1" and 3/4" with, not all, but mostly pastel colors would show up at; ebay.fr.. I have not looked or checked for origin in all these years but, could not find glass factories or glass manufactures in France with or without marbles then. I forget today but I used translated words such as German marblen? or French Billies? translations, 'Glass Marbles, Toy Marbles and anything else to discover what they called em. So, if anybody wants to hunt; use translated descriptions. The internet has enlarged greatly since so, in the least, glass manufactures are probably within reach now, yet, may or may not show marble companies because it's the bottle collectors who've been searching for glass manufactures since the 60-70's. The best of these are quite colorful, like a flower 'Sparkler' with many filaments inside. I have seen 5/8" that are just as colorful too. I only have 3, one 1" and two 3/4"and just one, pastel colored, is in full, as it were, bloom. I can't remember but, I may have acquired others whenever I got from France, but look the same as those thought to be German so, they are mixed in the piles of like kind. .

The parallel stripes and patterning appears to only go halfway and hits a patch which is nothing known to be a US company. So, for that, I'd say no on Marble King and yes, on Foreign. It's a pretty nice and rich red with interesting darker lines though. Yet I think it's more of a Chinese checker verity.

2004-5 Akro HG collage of seller's photos. While I have not become capable of making decent shots of my Arko Hand gathered collection, here's an old photo collage I put together back then; some of those made by a few sellers I had purchased from. Thier photos are not very good as, with exception of two; the yellow and red/black marbles, the color balance if off, but a sample of some just the same.

That yellow, as I described in the bumble bees, it did not happen until 1967. The marbles in question: Anyways, about the MK yellow; summer; 1967, my brother and I were in the dime store and for the first time in years were Cub scouts in new bags, IDK maybe 40 count, I only recall larger bags and lots of them, loaded with regular white patch and ribbons and some Cub Scouts, IDK maybe some Bumble bees but they were not hard to find as the cubs were.. Since Rambow reds came out, about 1965, new Patch and ribbons with colors from the 50's virtually vanished. These bags did not have many Cubs or bees but otherwise white regular rainbows which were ordinary. Not very many Cubs but enough to stand out and be tempting to have found new marbles like that.. These Scouts were weird, here's something different about them. Al, being mainly a bag collector I expect, you probably have these Cub scouts and potentially Bees too but may not realize it. I do, 3 bags with a 60's paper Rainbo label, 19 count and each bag has 2-3 cub scouts inside. The blue and yellow are unlike 50's and, for a collector will stand out against older versions easy. . The marbles in my bags are regular white and 1 color, white tri-color; blue, yellow and green, the cub scouts and tri-color are different than any others. That is, the yellow on the tri-colors do not stand out like the Cubs do, but when you have the cubs to compare against the yellow in tri-colored, it's the same. The yellow is brighter than 50-60's and, as I said: looks a lot like in that black and yellow inside the K & M bag. In it; Top row bumble bee at far left; It's the very same yellow as my Boy scouts which is a very thin bright yellow and looks like it was painted on, thin and rich veneer on the surface only. That's the easiest to tag and when you know it, the other bees have this yellow too. So, I couldn't get good close up or better photos of them. I can see Fire's bumble bees have it too. Heck maybe they're rare. I acquired these bags on Ebay, like 20 years ago, because I knew what they are. Not expecting nobody else knew, but as a novelty from the last year I played marbles in school. Color is the key as I've never seen that yellow and appearance like paint on any other MK's. Maybe just a short run IDK except it's unique and the 5 & 10 store must have had around 100 bags displayed, IDK what? a quarter, 50 cent per bag. It was not a clearance and n just recently newly stocked. Being the best bargain store we frequented it for cheap toys, comics, cards, paperback books, models and tester's paint, just to name a few items availed. .

Sparkler on right.

Akro patch. And it's not a matter whether it spun properly rather, The Barker system and spinning cup was designed to vary from patches (no spin) and all the way up to about 2-1/2 spins all at the same time while the system was running. Not only that but because it used a friction gear which enabled this range of variation. , In fact I have an original 1928 100 count box and it contains a patch and 2-1/2 spin in it. In my box, it seems the odds are 1 in 100 to get 1 patch and the same 1 in 100 to get one 2-1/2 spin. All the rest vary in the number of spins each have.

MK Dragonfly variations:

It looks like the Bumble bee's yellow is a very thin opaque veneer, which may look close to paint or even fingernail polish as it's so thin. If that is so, verses late 50's and 60's then, the bag might be real and produced in the late 60's-70's. There are Cub Scouts with this yellow around the same time period.

BTW, I have this in 5/8" and a few with purple and white. Not to leave out, it's the same green in their flames and opaque swirls too. It's a green that's exclusive to Veigi.

I have 5/8"purple in Veiligglas but it's cleaner. I also have 5/8" like my purple that almost looks black but the actual tone is like transparent brown yet back-lit has a reddish purple gleaming through. If both of mine had not found in Germany with many certain Veiligglas wirepulls, flames and opaque swirls in definite Duch colors, I would have thought they were fer sure. West Verginny. Yours I thought WV too until this photo and size. You almost have that brownish tone in there like mine, almost. Yet toss in the size that's saying Veiligglas now.

In this case, it's not that it has two colors, not size or even bubbles where you determine who it's made by, It's the shade of this green along with the rest: It's certainly Veiligglas's green.

Ha, ha. Been there done that. Tons of photos just to get on steady shot. That's why I have a little tripod. 98% of the time, free handing the camera, whenever I push the button, it causes the camera to move. So, no, the problem is the Digital SLR in micro mode and adjusting settings over and over for practically every different marble I shoot. . Yet, it's also because I got my current newer camera after researching different used models and this amateur blogger who takes sweet, doubly sweet, freehand micro shots of bugs, flowers and everything else without a tripod. His directions of what settings to use works super for him but not for me, even with a tripod. I am frustrated and stuck with this camera until I can figure it out.

Well shoot. Wishing my danged camera would let me just point and shoot my Cyclone half pieces to show you.. There's more than what meets the eye on this fire. You've got Cobra/Cyclone inside it. You see those small bits of frit in the central area, If the spots of color on the surface had a pane to see through, those bits in there, depending on the depth inside, would get magnified two or three times what you are seeing inside now. And it would not look like what you see in the center of it, rather you'd see them blend or flow more, get pretty like these:

It's an Akro Imperial. Some are corkscrews and many, like yours, are swirls. This one is not going to glow in black light like an aide. I think, legend is: They were first made before corks and so, that's why there's a mixture of cork and swirls.

Akro Friday's Baker Spinning cup and bonus relationship to Flames. I am afraid you are not on the same subject Alan. You are citing marbles that are all mixed in a tank, of which, if anybody spent time, effort or money trying to solve the means to purposely make flames, it was wasted, in at least, that it would require a small nozzle and a means to gather this thin stream while it piles. It's actually what I discussed with Dave back in 2005 or 6 when I was concerting commissioning, he and Jabo to make a whole run for me. I don't know except it was maybe 6-10 months later when they'd made those pewees, if that's what and how he'd made those "small nozzle and pile the stream' , except I am fairly certain I stimulated some thought. I ended up deciding that I didn't want to follow through and taking the time of just me selling. I forget but something in the area of 20,000 marbles plus a few grand more extra of oddities for about $16k, or something like that. Just too many marbles and I might end up nickel and diming to death. Anyway, that's immaterial to the understanding of, why CAC and others do flame yet, randomly verses full intent, but it is going to happen more frequently when the stream is striped. Akro Friday! What's missing, in general, is what the Barker spinning cup patent reveals. Barker's patent went further than illustrating the mechanism of his special cup and, most importantly, the system. His claim describes how the spinning cup works and the friction gear too and the system, tanks and plungers in order to do the real magic and stripe! This is the very first illustrated example in making marbles, at least where a fully automated gob feeder and system that actually striped molten glass. . You cannot stripe glass like CAC, Akro, Peltier and others in just a single tank with color control and consistency. You need to do what Ira Freeze tried in 1922: 1 large base and at least 1 or 2 smaller tanks that stream together. yet, Ira did not have plungers that could do this. Or whatever because obviously Akro did not make 3 colors, or multi colored streamed marbles in 1922, it didn't work. The key of automation began here in 1912 with the first gob feeder and 1913 when Bucher Emhart introduced Plungers Link:: History | Bucher Emhart Glass I do not think theirs were fully functional until the mid 20's, maybe not until 1928 and potentially, leased by Akro and others. Because, just as MFC did, Bucher Emhart owned the world rights too. Something is missing in the history telling the whole story about this and how rights were assigned. They maintained patent right for essentially upgrading full automaton in the industry beyond 1931. Hartford Empire tried to steal it, got caught red handed and lost. read the story I linked where it all successfully began. The dug-up Akro I began this thread with, that's real weird because Barkers spinning cup has spinning limits and it defies it. IDK maybe the friction gear broke, but it ranges from no spin (Patch), 1/4, 1/2 etc. and up to about 2-1/2 spins all at the same time. The friction gear should slip so, we have 'a fixed limit of variation where it's making a verity of spins while operating. And of course, when off, it's making patch, as in Patch Popeyes if desired and or, that's why you do not see very many. Make 3 colors in this system you just add another tank and plunger, the more the merrier. Regardless, Stripes is where I am going with the CAC I added and the count to 7. You really need to begin understanding why lucky 7's happen a lot. Take that Dug up Akro and the spiral, It's a stripe. The CAC is striped, even wire pulls, Alley flames, The Duch flames and wire pulls are all stripes. Now here's (Below)the whole system; a big tank I colored Blue, secondary tank is red. You have two plungers, small and large that feed the stream, measured amounts that are in time with spinning cup and shear blade. After Barker's Illustration me shows you more 'Lucky 7's as I began this topic; It happens because the stream or striping is completed in maybe as thin as spaghetti. Or rather, if you want a 5/8" size then that spaghetti like multi color stream's length has to be a measured which needs to be gathered somewhere, just before it heads to the auger rollers. I expect; if you used a soaking wet, soft strand of Spaghetti and squished it tight into a ball, you may be able to discover the Length the molten strand would need to be. I'm Adding an actual chunk of a dug-up CAC 'Spaghetti like culet. It's yellow base, coated red and leaving a little less than half yellow that's not coated red. So, it could or would be a red and yellow swirl or if lucky, flame. Keep in mind, the photo examples, 'Lucky 7's (Lucky 7's? yeah I made that name up to suite the meaning); This number isn't random nor happenstance, no magic, I did not make this up in some delusionary plan.: I've examined dozens of old 5/8" flames and swirls, it's a real thing, and I've illustrated it to make it easy for ya'll. And, for 5/8"; whenever the strand is about 3 times fatter, (I did not take pictures) you can get 3 flames on em too. 3's and 7's are there, U just need to learn how to count em. IDK but think I made this, like, 18-20 years ago and there's another with little more details and scissor shears blade, I made as a set back then with more detail, floating on the net, somewhere. This photo of CAC strands is enlarged but actually are about the size of spaghetti. [Edit; Guess I thought in photo, size of spaghetti noodle but after digging the chunk out, it's about twice the thickness of a spaghetti strand.] Bonus points for those who suffered my little lecture this far down.>> These are a sampling of my 100 count box. This and the box they came in is of the very first Akro corks made in 1928 before the 'Prize name' contest winners were announced. Or fact is; Akro lied. They never printed the winner in the Boy's life magazine when they'd said they would. Instead, they stuck another "Prize Name contest" paper in the next years boxes with a new date too be printed in the mag. go figure? . It's was to give cork screws an title yet, just ended up calling them 'Prize Name' Weird.. Anyway: Hap-spee Akro Friday!

Dang. It looks like; when cut, a nice whip slipped through the shear blade and got slapped over it as it hit the rollers, which made it wobble a bit. Had it not gotten rough and out of round it would still be a reject because it smeared over the pattern, that, if it wasn't finished poorly, most anybody would be more than happy to find a Peltier Champ Jr Big Boy like that. I mean as in "whip" This is the exact feature that occasionally happens on a CAC striped opaque or transparent striper; a little less than 1/4" whip tail on the cut seam, when it should not be there, and quite desirable, except yours has a way cooler excess slop there.

Not an Akro cork and not so sure it's a Jabo either as the glass and colors look too smooth and zero blending. I do have some of the original 1st batch Jabo made. A little hard to describe; they, kind of look like a cork, but are nothing similar to an Akro like this is. They start with a round ball that a thin line spirals away from, then turns into a regular Jabo swirl on the other side. Yours is not doing anything like that nor is there any blending. Regardless if you knew all the various colors Akro used, were it to be one, that wouldn't seem as "Ugly" as you think rather, pretty darn cool. For an Akro collector really cool as the colors are like nothing they made too. (Edit)Well shoot, apparently, I grabbed the best one. Double checked the others and they're even harder to describe. others have a smooth curved start, but folded start of the spiral, I can't explain so easily, but spiral around and then the other half like I said, regular Jabo swirl including a 'Butt crack on a few. Some, although the same exact colors don't even spiral at all. I probably forgot as I've had theses IDK like, 15-18 years ago: I like picking an example of each feature things may have, that makes a full set of what was made; Best to least. Sorry, still having problems with my camera or I'd shoot em verses trying to describe. Yet once again, they are not like yours at all.

Looks like Jabo or DAS.