Shamrock Marbles

To All, Thanks for the generous compliments. Greg, Each marble has the distinctive DNA of the original artist and are signed by that artist. The miniature Matthews signature is a marvel unto itself. Those on Mark's website are from last year, 2016. Mark has some completely different marbles from this year's run, 2017. Mark dug way back into his archives. My favorites are his clam broth and peppermint reruns. Also, Hot House Glass has a grouping for sale. They sold their first listings (BIN) very quickly, but are going to do a second release soon. They anounce their Ebay listings via their FB account. Their construction and use of dichro make their marbles pop! Sincerely, John

You are most welcome. I presumed you were busy and didn't have time to research it yourself. After all, you did ask for help understanding why I used the adjective "rare". No raw or "rare" nerve here. It appears my usage of the word got you going first. However, I do like the way you try to twist who has the raw nerve. As far as being verbose, I do not apologize. I try to be clear. What I see on marble boards is the more an individual knows the shorter their post. This brevity, or economy, of words can come off as curt and uninviting for continued discussion. New (and old) people need slack and the chance to err. It is the job of experienced people to kindly spread any tribal knowledge. Again, it is all good here in Kansas. Sincerely, John

Mikie_T, For your viewing pleasure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3mzj0-j2ww&t=6s Sincerely, John

Greg, Here are some large Shamrock slags (1-1/4" - 1-3/8" diameter) for reference. [Box set made by Craig aka "spara50"]. Totally different pattern than Chris'. Also, my cut lines are straight. Sincerely, John McCormick

Greg, Pretty sure it is one of Chris' original runs. It was made with Fenton transparent red and Hobnail white (Gabbert Cullet). Under hard lighting the deep red goes orange (auction photos 1-6). I guess that is why the seller posted photos under two lighting conditions. The second set of photos (7-12) show the deeper red. Just two colors and some "gravitational" twisting makes a wonderful pattern! Notice the "U" or "V" shaped cutline? That is from using diamond shears. The shears sucked out too much heat at the cutline, thus inhibiting it from completely melding into the body. Also, if you look close enough, the "sphere" is quite "lumpy". This was because the roller geometry wasn't optimal on his machine. Yes, R&T marbles are machine rounded. I took possession of Chris' machine from John Hamon-Miller at Amana, 2004. Rebuilt and returned it to Chris in 2005. He did attempt to make marbles on it, but was frustrated again by its inability to consistently produce round marbles. I too have seen R&T Slags at shows and I have bought them (if the price was right). There aren't that many in the wild. Chris' are very distinctive from other large slags. Once you develop an eye, you can pick them right out. Sincerely, John McCormick

Let Merriam-Webster help you... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rare Definition 3: seldom occurring or found :uncommon How often do you see Robinson Road & Tunnel Marbles offered on Ebay? How often do you see these for sale at marble shows? By this definition alone, the appearance of a R&T for sale is a "rare" event. This is an uncommon marble. Definition 2a: marked by unusual quality, merit, or appeal :distinctive b :superlative or extreme of its kind Very few of the Road & Tunnels were made with enough "roundness" that Chris thought they were sellable. So, a "round" R&T unto itself is rare. Not all sold R&T marbles have such a well defined road and tunnel graphic. This exact marble is of unusual roundness, distinctive pattern with an eye appealing color combination. This is a distictive marble. *** The suggestion that Chris can fire-up the torch and crank out as many as you want, is a false premise to invalidate the usage of "rare". My statement is in the present tense. Even if Chris fires-up the torch and cranks out as many as you want, my statement holds true as when written. In the universe of marbles (data set), what percentage do you think existing Chris Robinson Road & Tunnel marbles total? Chris did not keep detailed records. After talking with him, there are probably fewer than 100 in circulation. If Chris did resume production, what number would he need to produce for his R&T Marbles not to be "rare"? Using better logic, please articulate why you think it is not "rare"? Sincerely, John McCormick , Shamrock Marbles

Just stumbled across this Ebay listing: https://m.ebay.com/itm/6672m-Vintage-Large-Red-Slag-Marble-1-01-Inches-Mint/202088847951?hash=item2f0d6f1a4f%3Ag%3A0RwAAOSwK~RZ7O2P&_trkparms=pageci%3A771ac4ca-bccd-11e7-9de5-74dbd180d0c7%7Cparentrq%3A69262eef15f0ab4c8c22dd4bfffd7423%7Ciid%3A17 Rare and nice Road & Tunnel Slag. Made by Chris Robinson, circa 1993-94. Sincerely, John McCormick Shamrock Marbles

Steph, Available on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_blrs=spell_check&_sop=1&_nkw=cook islands millefiori&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1&_trksid=p2045573.m1684 YouTube Vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6joqptWl5hE John

Steph, Most of the Hot House marbles have dichro. Matthews uses aventurine or lutz to sex-up his orbs. John

Some unique marbles, made with unique friends: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-House-Glass-Mark-Matthews-Rerun-marble-1-26-32mm-519-/182350125330?hash=item2a74ea1912:g:JPsAAOSwx2dYJQyK http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-House-Glass-Mark-Matthews-Rerun-marble-1-26-32mm-523-/252631003505?hash=item3ad1fb3171:g:jqIAAOSwB09YJQ2k Fun times had by all! Sincerely, John McCormick Shamrock Marbles

Griff: Obviously, there is no perfect sphere rolling off anyone's marble machine. Glass is forgiving. Now, let's concede that I'm all wet and you're right. Your Post #7 states: Mike brings a point that my rollers really never do heat up, like a real continuous marble production run. I easily concede that, because I show that in my demonstrations by touching the surface even while the marble is rounding. The marble machine is a big heatsink. So, my machine rollers at room temperature (as low as 55 degree F) would represent the worst case scenario for "cold rollers" (as you so state). True? I have placed hot glass gobs that where heated from furnaces, glory holes and torches. Let's say that 2,200 degrees F would be a number to start. You stated in Post #24 We can safely assume that glass won't gain heat after it leaves the tank, so let's use your number of 2,100 as "hot glass" (as you so state). Can you share with us, why I don't get orange peel on my marbles when I put "hot glass" on "cold rollers"? Shouldn't I be wrinkling the crap out my marbles? Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Here's a question: When MFC made oxblood, did they mix the ingredients, cook, then gather directly? Or When MFC made oxblood, did they mix the ingredients, cook, ladle and dump glass to cool. Only to heat up Oxblood cullet again in a monkey pot from which they gathered? For Akro, did they just add Oxblood Cullet to their color tanks? Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Galen: Here are some better close up photos of a hot gob of glass ran on rough (sand blasted) rollers. Some round impressions, some elongated impressions, no scratches in the valleys. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mike, Here is the Peltier PeeWee marble machine languishing somewhere. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Galen: Sorry but I doubt very much Vacor allows any of their rollers to get rusty and pitted, JMHO Daddy always told me, "A man's entitled to his opinion, even no matter how wrong it is." Maybe you and I should go together and see? Hopefully, one of us will learn something. Welcome back. and not so sure any of the largest types are made with chips. I now firmly believe you don't really read anything. Post #69 shows a yellow 1-5/8" diameter marble. That surface is embedded with glass frit. I toured a glass factory in W.V. many years ago. They took their still hot hand blown pieces and plunged them into water . It was really neat. The results were neat too. And how does this move the discussion forward? I've seen Ro Purser cool a murrine gather in a bucket of water. I can say his results were pretty neat, but it has no correlation to the Vacor squiggles. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mon, Sorry for making you repeat yourself and I understand........pretty cool video and not what I expected! I don't have a surface gage but wonder how much surface deviation in some of the euro's or jolly's? No problem. I hope you didn't take me wrong. I was citing my passages to help others in reference to your question. I doubt anyone will read this thread in its entirety. Funny you mention measuring the surface. Want to go halvsies? http://www.schmitteurope.com/Surface-Roughness-Measurement/lasercheck-automated.html I'm sure glad you not investigating who stoled two bars of turkish taffy from the Kipton general store in 1967.........ok, it was me! lol If you need more... http://www.groovycandies.com/vanilla-bonomo-turkish-taffy-24-bars?zmam=61863401&zmas=1&zmac=1&zmap=59033&gclid=CL-psYXJpckCFQgKaQodnIkAxw Mon, thanks for your patience. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Galen: I should have said I have seen orange peel texture on glass that the side showing the orange peel was not touching anything, but in my time away I will do some research as I kind of remember oil or steam possibly having something to do with it. IT seems hitting that 60 mark messed up a lot of synapses Thanks for clarifying. Let me try to clarify some things myself. Glass cools and can develop waviness (or some would call chill marks). This is most evident on irregular shaped items. Take a gob of glass and drop it onto a steel marver. Let it sit until it cools enough to handle and place in an annealer. When you pull out the cooled mass, the top will be domed, the edges rounded, but the bottom will have concentric rings/waves/chill marks. The transfer of heat on the bottom is greater to the cool marver (conduction) than the top in contact with the surrounding air (convection). Heat loss through radiation is negligible. Take a gob of glass on the end of a punty. Flatten four sides on the marver and the end opposite the punty. You will notice again a waviness form on the surface. The corners will cool quickest (smallest cross-sectional distance). Followed by the edges and then the center. Notice the pattern that forms on the panel surfaces? Concentric circles or ovals. But what makes a marble very special is that it is what it is -- a sphere. The distance from the center to any surface is equal. (All radii are equal.) The distance from any point on the surface back to itself is equal. (All circumferences are equal.) It is the only shape that gives the greatest volume with the smallest surface area. (Perfection.) Because of this physical trait, the marble can withstand quite a bit of cooling before failure. Not something you can get away with on a glass goblet where the cross section of the glass changes drastically from the lip, through the body, the stem and then to the foot. Think how long the first marble sits in a bottom of a collection bucket before that bucket is placed in the lehr for annealing? Marbles are pretty darn durable. So, as a marble cools on the surface as it is being "spun", it contracts uniformly. The surface tension of the glass surface increases and places the molten core under pressure. There is a point where the surface cools and the hot interior no longer has enough energy to reheat the surface. It is this point when one can safely place in an annealer. (Learned the hard way.) If you look at marble halves, many of them have a small bubble where the stresses propagated to the surface. (Cracked from the inside out.) Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Steph: Yes, food for thought. Have you been checking my math? Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

To All: I consider the severity and orange peel pattern on the Vacor to be unique. Definitely something you don't see on vintage machine made marbles (the closest that approaches to this are certain samples of AKRO Jolly Rogers). The Vacor orange peel is easily seen on their Jumbo marbles (1-3/8"), but also on some of their smaller marbles (1" included), but not as severe. On Friday afternoon, I went browsing at Moon Marble. As I looked through similar sized bins, I noticed that the transparent marbles were smoother (no orange peel) than certain opaque marbles (some opaque marbles were smooth). In other words, not all Vacors exhibit this orange peel. Why some and not others? When I got to the end of the row, I found something that struck me. I found a bin full of beautiful Vacor Snow Leopards. Why did it hit me? When you sprinkle cold shards of glass into the marble machine, those little bits-o-glass tear up the auger surface. Run enough of this and you'll impact the surface of the augers like the surface of the moon. This result is similar to media blasting the surface. (Different media and application settings will give different surface textures.) Some of those chunks are 3/32" and just sharp edges. So, after you are done with a run of Snow Leopards and your augers are beat, what do you run next? Transparent red? No way! They would look like heck. Any transparent would. Run an opaque color until the tooling smooth's out, then transition into something that won't highlight the surface imperfections. You might want to iridize or acid etch the surfaces to soften or mask the rough surface. Vacor runs frit on most of their size ranges. I wouldn't think that Vacor would have dedicated frit machines, because the wear and tear would too much on a single machine. It sure would be interesting to know. Back in the Summer of 2006, I ran some frit through the large tooling of my first machine (at Sauder Village). A clear gob was gathered and dropped into the rollers. Small, multi-colored frit was dropped into the machine. The grinding and chattering of the machine was most evident. Tore the heck out of the surface to the point I had to sand it smooth. Not on my list to do anytime soon. (This was my attempt at making a Vitro "confetti" marble.) I need to find my samples of those. So, back to my theory... The Vacor orange peel is from rough augers. Larger marbles shift more, thus creating elongated valleys. The augers are rough because they have been media blasted sprinkled and ground with large, sharp, hard glass frit. Just some food for thought. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

To All: On Friday, I had the chance to visit Moon Marble. I did this for two reasons. 1) Locate samples of Shamrock Marbles made on a newly sandblasted forming surface and left there for their archives. 2) Look at a huge assortment of Vacor marbles. After a short search, I came across three clear samples that matched up with my "Guinea" Lemon. Here they are: Notice: 1) The severe orange peel (or lemon peel). 2) The chevron (ram's head) twist. 3) The "copper" tint to the marble in the upper right. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

These? https://www.moonmarble.com/p-386-empty-collector-case.aspx Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

To All: Here are some videos showing surface tension of water in zero g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTqLQO3L4Ko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntQ7qGilqZE Notice how a small water droplet reacts when separated from the larger mass. It almost instantaneously forms into a sphere, while the large mass flails about. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mon, But......I would imagine the PeeWee machine(s) sat just as much, if not more, than a 3/4" plus machine(s). Can't recall any of my PeeWee's with OP. Without knowing jack sh*t, I always thought OP was do to poor glass cause it seems to be more prevalent in foreign marbles with the exception of the jolly roger's you had pointed out. Yes, agreed. PeeWee machines would sit as much. Here is the Peltier PeeWee Machine sitting idle. Look at the rust on the augers. She has seen better days. Wonder what marbles would look like coming off her now. Again, back in Post #15 I stated: However, the weight of a large marble does force the glass against the roller surface more than a smaller volume/weight gob. Larger marble=heavier weight=deeper impression. Smaller marble=lighter weight=lighter impression. A PeeWee (0.499" diameter) marble is 1/8th (0.125x) the mass of a 1.000" diameter marble. [Another way to look at it is: A 1" marble weighs 8-times more than a PeeWee marble.] Hence, the surface of a PeeWee will see 1/8th the force from gravity as it is pushed against the rollers. Marble mass increases as a cube of the diameter (Mass = Density * Volume = Density * ((3.14159/6)*(Diameter^3)). Double the diameter of a marble and it's volume, mass, thermal energy is 8x greater (2^3=8). But there is are other factors helping the PeeWee: 1) It's smaller size is impacted more from surface tension. The surface tension is trying to pull the mass into a sphere. Like a small bead of water on a leaf. The smaller, the rounder. Increase the mass of the droplet and it flattens. 2) The smaller mass of the PeeWee has less thermal mass and cools much quicker (again 1/8th as much as a 1"). There is a lesser chance of surface shifting. Man, these suckers set quickly! 3) It's surface is smaller and your old eyes can't see those imperfections as easily! Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Winnie: There are Euro sparklers with the same orange peel as showed in page #54 You bring up an interesting point. Clear or transparent glass really highlights the rough surface. The light reflects and diffracts. Light coming through the other side of the marble helps seeing the surface distortion. On an opaque marble, you need to get the right angle for the reflection to see orange peel. The transparent versus opaque glass is something I'll bring up in my Vacor discussion. Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"

Mon: I have had many 1" plus european sparklers and I can't remember seeing any without a certain level orange peel. Also, I have had many of the smaller 5/8" plus without a trace of OP. If it was a temperature thing of rollers vs glass, why would it be so consistent? Were the 1" er's made in short runs.....short enough that the rollers never made it to a temp to alleviate OP? If it's a roller condition issue....did most companies rework them after sitting idle? Why is the it the larger marblest have OP more often? I tried to lay out some reasoning in my response to Bumblbee back in Post #15. Here is an excerpt: Just a guess but probably 90% of all marbles run are 5/8" with the remaining 10% of smaller and larger marbles (of which shooter 3/4" are included). Large marbles (say over 3/4") are infrequently run, because they are expensive to produce and the demand wasn't there. This meant that marble rounding machines for large spheres where mostly idle throughout the year. Here are photos of idle machines: Unknown location and sizes. Peltier Pee-Wee Machine in unknown location. (Mike, thanks for your photo in the PeeWee thread.) Sincerely, John McCormick "Shamrock Marbles"