Flame Off

[sissydear]

I have thought for at least 2 1/2 years about this. Now I'm going to expose another marble company.

You haven't proven anything because a JABO marble fooled me into buying it for a Vitro Agate. It proves I made a mistake and should have known better. Let's look at that particular marble again.

The marble has a small "v" on the backside. It has a large "V" on the frontside. David McCullough did nothing intentional to make this marble look like a vitro agate. The machine it was rolled on is a Vitro Agate machine. It's a miracle that many more of them don't have this pattern. I paid $2 for the marble. I'll bet a lot of people would pay $2 for this marble, maybe $5, or $10 or more because it's got oxblood, or it's pretty, or whatever other reason people have for buying marbles. I don't feel cheated by a JABO, if it's any of your business.

I remember your original premise was that people would be cheated out of hundreds of dollars by the JABO look alikes. JABO look alikes that looked like CAC or Akro. Well wait for the end of this post before you leap in here.

[sissydear]

I bought this marble in the late 1990's. I bought it from a reputatble dealer. I don't know if he knew what it was or was misrepresenting it. I don't care. This was represented as a CAC red and green flame. I paid $300 for it. I didn't learn it was an Alley Agate until Ron Shepherd came to my house, looked at my CAC box and said "That's an Alley".

Don't leap yet!

[sissydear]

I bought this flame from another reputable dealer. It was represented as CAC red and purple flame. I found out the truth in 2009 when Ron Shepherd ID'd it for me. It's an Alley Agate. I've never heard any rants about Alley Agate making marbles that copied more expensive ones. I paid $275 for this marble. I haven't bought any CAC since Ron identified them for me. I don't know enough about CAC to put my money on them. Some of you guys are making a lot of money with your ignorance or maybe intentional misrepresentation of Alley Agates. None of you are trying to "educate" or "warn" people or whatever it is you call your posts about JABO that I call "rants" . By the way, the red dipping into the white glass looks purple when you hold this marble in your hand unmagnified and unlit by a strong light.

Hold it just a little longer while I post the last one.

[sissydear]

Well, guess what this is? Weldon bought it early on in collecting Peltiers. Other marble people ID'd it as CAC. We were confused. We'd paid $60 for it. It was a very reputable dealer we trusted. Of course, this is also an Alley Agate, probably made when they were located in Sistersville. A lot of this cullet has been found there. Ron says this one is very common. By the way there is a marble they made that looks very much like an Akro Agate marble, the one with a thin line of oxblood in it. Except the Alley Agate doesn't have the oxblood, just a thin brown line. Again, none of you are ranting about Alley Agate. Is it too late? Is it already done?

Now I'm through! Rant away! And Steph you can move this to the proper place.

[Steph]

Really? #2 is an Alley. I still would have pegged that as a CAC.

[sissydear]

All are Alley Agate, except the first one I just bought and of course it's a JABO.

[SNYD]

I bought this flame from another reputable dealer. It was represented as CAC red and purple flame. I found out the truth in 2009 when Ron Shepherd ID'd it for me. It's an Alley Agate. I've never heard any rants about Alley Agate making marbles that copied more expensive ones. I paid $275 for this marble. I haven't bought any CAC since Ron identified them for me. I don't know enough about CAC to put my money on them. Some of you guys are making a lot of money with your ignorance or maybe intentional misrepresentation of Alley Agates. None of you are trying to "educate" or "warn" people or whatever it is you call your posts about JABO that I call "rants" . By the way, the red dipping into the white glass looks purple when you hold this marble in your hand unmagnified and unlit by a strong light.

Your comments consist of reasons why I have had many days of evaluating if marble collecting was really for me. I have been burned so many times by (Good Dealers) that it really put a sour taste in my mouth for marble collecting and the whole darn bunch. This still today bothers me, it bothers me becasue I know that so many new collectors are being burnt and they will soon get to the point that they leave the hobby. Some collectors trust dealers becasue we think they know what they are saying, some don't, some do and still burn people and some just want money. It has taken me almost ten years of shows, meeting folks to say that I only have four or five folks that I trust. I mean really trust. I agree that there is some ignorance that allows a seller or dealer to make a mistake, but why is it always at our loss. It seems that the mighty dollar has taken over this sport. But don't give up. To all the people starting, let me give you a strong start that will only make your collecting a fun journey. First and foremost, collect to find new friends, then, what ever trips your trigger. To help you with the first part, here are some names of people that I feel are 100% grade "A" in every manner related to marble collecting. They love marbles and people, and treat everyone with great respect. I am sure there are more, I just need to meet them, which I am sure I will someday. I am sure I missed a few too.

In no particular order - Ron Shepperd - Steve Smith - Alan Basinett - Griff - Bert These are some of the best folks you could ever meet. unfortunitly they don't sell marbles all that much, but do some. Make your way to meet them, it'll pay off in so many ways.

[sissydear]

Ditto what SNYD said and thank you for your great post.

[winnie]

yeah,I see also CAC in *2 and a very nice one.

I think almost everyone can be fooled into.

Good lesson.

winnie

[sissydear]

Thank you for the positives. Maybe I've kept quiet too long.

[lstmmrbls]

I would argue that number 2 and 3 are both CAC. The globules under the surface of the red and white are a classic CAC trait.. The crystal clear red is also A CAC glass IMO. The orang color And the flame pattern of #2 is identical to many CACs not Ally's. #4 looks classic Alley to me. And I never said who why how or anything else about the New Jabo production. Simply stated that they already are and will be a big confusion for many(especially future) collectors. Why all the defensive type posts I do not understand. I was not trying to belittle you in any way. If you took any of my posts as an attack on you in any way I apologize.

[mibcapper]

Thank you for the positives. Maybe I've kept quiet too long.

i'm still gigglin over the mib i put in ron's hand awhile back .. we both thought it .. was ...ALLEYYYYY .. and fell over when we , he, realized it came from ... RENOOOOOO ... ... those are sure alleys edna ... bill

[sissydear]

I never thought or said that anything you said in the WV post was belittling to me or an attack on me. I thought you were very supportive about my error. I am just tired of the JABO rants and I'm seeing that I'm not the only one. The WV post was beginning to be a "join up forces routine" like all those in the past when anyone dared to post JABO's. I personally think it's sick that you guys react to JABO the way you do. I thought you should see marbles from the past like "Alley Agate" that probably were intentional mimics and nobody seemed to care.

SNYD, you should add Bill McCaleb to your list of good guys and while you're at it, Howard Powell too.

[lstmmrbls]

If I am one of those GUYS I must correct you and say I did not react in any way, Just stated some facts. And many dozens if not hundreds of posts have been made in a positive way about the new jabos with out any negative comments. It seems calling to question any thing that may be a negative about them creates quite a bigger stir than making positive posts. Why nothing negative can be said without reactions seems very strange to me until I again realize that most of the reactive type comments come from folks that have invested in the New Runs.

[sissydear]

Galen, if you think the red/green and the red/purple are CAC, perhaps you've already been fooled by Alley Agates just like me.

[sissydear]

I did not say you are one of those GUYS . I too just stated facts I've held back a long time. Your defensiveness sounds a little like you feel some guilt. As a child when I made remarks like yours, my mother would reply "If the shoe fits, wear it." Or maybe you just don't get how hurtful your comments from the past were to others who don't share your opinion. Sometimes reserving your opinion to yourself is a smarter move. I am offended by one of your last remarks. "Why nothing negative can be said without reactions seems very strange to me until I again realize that most of the reactive type comments come from folks that have invested in the New Runs." This has always in the past referred to investors being offended because we are out to make money. I will speak for myself. (And maybe for some others, I know a lot of others who don't sell their marbles.) I never went into investing in JABO's to make money. I went for the friendships SNYD spoke of. I went for the experiences I had. I went for the marbles I can keep and the marbles I can give away freely. Do you not realize how hurtful your remarks about JABO are to those who love them? Do you not realize with all of your talk about money( ex. $2 or $3 is a lot for some people) that $2 or $3 for a marble is the most some people can pay? And they pay it because they like the marbles. All of us can do without the negative, hurtful remarks - not just investors, but collectors. Your remarks about JABO are hurtful to the people who can buy a JABO but not a Peltier NLR or CAC or 3 colored Akro Agate.

I apologize for the sarcastic tone of my post concerning the Alley's. I love them. I paid too much for them. I don't whine about it. I don't rant. They are what they are. Maybe I should have posted it long ago, but i don't think that would have stopped your negativity or others about JABO's. But lots of others do follow your lead. Get that? Today I don't think it will stop ever, no matter what anybody thinks. Here I am, giving you and your friends the opportunity to rant. So carry on. This is not personal. I'm just tired of the unjustified rants. You never ranted about Alley mimics.

[BuckEye]

i think the orange and green is CAC, i bet it fluoresces just like the red and white one. if you dont want it.....maybe we can trade

c

[sissydear]

It does not fluoresce and i want it and it is Alley Agate.

[sissydear]

Maybe the orange in the pic is throwing off you folks who think it is CAC. My camera flash must have effected it. It is definitely more red than orange.

[sissydear]

And maybe Ron will have to come on and tell us why it's Alley.

[sissydear]

Maybe I need to say I am not complaining or whining about any of the marbles. I like them for what they are. Pretty marbles.

[david Chamberlain]

Maybe I can give this a little perspective. I do not see any of these four marbles as 'purposeful' mimics; that is investing them with a character that I can't imagine anyone actually aiming for at the time of their creation. I see them as pure happenstance although I am sure that many different companies in the past saw marbles produced by other companies and thought to themselves, "That looks like a winner. Gotta pull off something like that." But doing it would have been an entirely different matter. For the most part like Jabo today I think the older marble companies were in business to try and make pretty marbles.

By the way, I'd have guessed Champion on #2 except for the pronounced flaming action. And marble #4 was for the longest time considered Christensen by many(Many!) of the dealers and collectors. Then all of a sudden Ron or someone set us right thankfully. If sizes were provided for these four marbles I'd have been able to have a better mental image of them.

SNYD, It ain't as bad as it appears.....really. I will grant though that marbles being such a subjective toughie it's a field that's wide open to fraud and eBay seems to be the area of criminal choice. But with a modicum of knowledge it's possible to put most of the pitfalls behind you. I know I've said it many times but if people buy what they like, buy condition and buy within their means if they discover in the future that what they bought wasn't what they thought it was at least it is something they like, that doesn't have detracting damage and didn't cost them an arm and a leg. In the final analysis as in any area of antiques and collectibles knowledge rules. David

[lstmmrbls]

Ron and I do have different opinions about some marbles as to whether they CAC or Alley. I never say I am 100% sure because I have not seen every marble made and in original packaging. Just have my opinion. Like many collectors of certain types we begin to see similarities between marbles we collect. Ron is an Alley collector so he sees a lot of resemblance between certain marbles and Alley. I, being a CAC collector see the similarities with known CACs. He haS even bought marbles from me that he believes were Alley and I believed were CAC. No big deaL.

[sissydear]

Sorry about that David, the Alley flames are 5/8 inch and the Alley swirl is a tad bit bigger.

[lstmmrbls]

And just to reiterate my original post was simply a response to all the folks that said how ridiculous(thats putting it nicely) I was for insinuating that many of the New Jabos resemble old marbles and will be fooling future collectors. That has nothing at all to do with what Vintage marbles resemble other Vintage marbles. And theoriginal thread was about VITRO marbles not Jabos to begin with. Thats all, I am done, I shouldn't have been sucked in this far.