Reheated Marbles Are More Common Than You Would Think

[jeroen]

Hello Collectors,

Another example of the fact that reheated marbles are no so rare: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=291029418596

This marble is reheated also. The pontils are wrong, probably made with a Dremel type tool. And take a good look at the 4th photo. In the left white spot, there are some of those lines that are typical with reheated marbles.

This ebay mica onionskin is probably an older marble, and should have a faceted pontil, and not two pontils like this one.

So watch out, because it is easy you will be fooled with such marbles. I have already learned a hard lesson with one of them!

Jeroen

[IowaMarble]

Jeroen,

I understand that you are still frustrated about your recent issue with a marble but I think you should be more careful when attempting to call someone else's marble a remelt especially when you have never seen it in hand. There is a good chance that this seller will now either lose bids or have bid retractions due to your assumptions that are stated as facts. You may have just cost this seller hundreds of dollars with this auction. Will you be compensating the seller if you are mistaken? Just curious.

[lstmmrbls]

Jeroen, They are very common. I saw half a dozen or more at the Vegas show that folks were showing how they got taken. Several had the the badly done dremel made pontils. And until the folks reheating them start scratching a signature in them they will be more and more common. I wonder how many Rich alone has done and he is only one of many. A bigger worry is some of the new outstanding copies being made today in OHIO. And hopefully Jeroen does get the seller of this OBVIOUS REMELT to loose a sale whether he knows what it is or not. I would happily compensate the seller for the lost sale if it is not reworked!!!!!!!!!!!

[jeroen]

Do you have an example of those OHIO copies?

[mmuehlba]

well not as many as polished , as that can go back a lot of years and now so many are showing up as some people sent every one out to end up wet .

Fred Leuenberger. would set up at shows work all day and take home work . He was just perfect and could take out a chip and never show any signs except when I look at pontals and see it shinney might make me think , I asked once why he looks at every marble with a loop and was told so I know if any one does what I do and use Fred . and that was a long time ago .

[hdesousa]

Jeroen,

I understand that you are still frustrated about your recent issue with a marble but I think you should be more careful when attempting to call someone else's marble a remelt especially when you have never seen it in hand. There is a good chance that this seller will now either lose bids or have bid retractions due to your assumptions that are stated as facts. You may have just cost this seller hundreds of dollars with this auction. Will you be compensating the seller if you are mistaken? Just curious.

The seller says in the description that most his marbles are consigned. I don't know what he charges to sell a marble, but I doubt he would loose "hundreds of dollars with this auction".

One would think he would value his reputation more than a lost commission that would have to be refunded anyway, when the marble is returned after the high bidder examines it in hand.

We should probably make Jeroen the forum's Chief Fake Buster, and unless there is malice intended, he should be allowed to call anything the way he sees it. The rest of us do, don't we?

[Greatmacscott]

Hey Jeroen,

Two quick questions:

1. Are you planning on sniping this marble at the last minute after keeping the price down and driving away the competition?

2. When did you get appointed as the official Marble Police?

I am comfortable with people sharing their knowledge on fakes, forgeries, and remelts as a general topic but when you start attacking individual listings of a seller with great feed back, don't you think that should be addressed in private between you and the seller and not by throwing a flaming goose over the public transom?

Scott

[Steph]

Not saying anything about whether this seller knows if the marbles are reworked, but we have seen people selling forgeries who had 100% (or at least high) feedback. Ebay once refused to listen to me and let people be defrauded of hundreds of dollars because the fraud was being done by someone with high feedback. They finally shut him down, but if they had looked at the evidence which we gathered here on this forum they could have shut him down earlier. Those who saw what we posted here were saved from making some bad bids.

Lots of people post links to reworked and misidentified marbles. I don't want Jeroen to catch too much flack for what other people do too.

[Steph]

Uh oh, I just noticed who the seller is.

Jeroen, that's a member of the forum with a very good reputation. In such a case it generally is advisable to try to talk things out with them in private before airing things out in public. You probably didn't know who he was though.

[jeroen]

The seller says in the description that most his marbles are consigned. I don't know what he charges to sell a marble, but I doubt he would loose "hundreds of dollars with this auction".

One would think he would value his reputation more than a lost commission that would have to be refunded anyway, when the marble is returned after the high bidder examines it in hand.

We should probably make Jeroen the forum's Chief Fake Buster, and unless there is malice intended, he should be allowed to call anything the way he sees it. The rest of us do, don't we?

I won't be the Chief Fake Buster, there are people out there who are better than me. I was not the first who saw that there was something wrong with this marble. A little birdy told me.

Jeroen

[jeroen]

Uh oh, I just noticed who the seller is.

Jeroen, that's a member of the forum with a very good reputation. In such a case it generally is advisable to try to talk things out with them in private before airing things out in public. You probably didn't know who he was though.

Hello Stephany,

I don't know who the seller is,

[Steph]

That's Charles, aka moremarbles4me.

[IowaMarble]

Uh oh, I just noticed who the seller is.

Jeroen, that's a member of the forum with a very good reputation. In such a case it generally is advisable to try to talk things out with them in private before airing things out in public. You probably didn't know who he was though.

These were my thoughts as well. Charles wouldn't intentionally defraud anyone - period. Why not contact him first instead of calling him out as if he was trying to pull a fast one on someone?

[jeroen]

Hey Jeroen,

Two quick questions:

1. Are you planning on sniping this marble at the last minute after keeping the price down and driving away the competition?

2. When did you get appointed as the official Marble Police?

I am comfortable with people sharing their knowledge on fakes, forgeries, and remelts as a general topic but when you start attacking individual listings of a seller with great feed back, don't you think that should be addressed in private between you and the seller and not by throwing a flaming goose over the public transom?

Scott

Hello,

1. Have you seen how large this marble is? I like big marbles, except for a very very few exceptions I buy them smaller than 2 inch, So no, I am not bidding on this one.

2. There are a lot of collectors with much more experience than I have. I was not the one who discovered that this marble was reheated. The person who saw it, just told me this to show me they are not as rare as some collectors here on the forum think they are.

Jeroen

[hdesousa]

These were my thoughts as well. Charles wouldn't intentionally defraud anyone - period. Why not contact him first instead of calling him out as if he was trying to pull a fast one on someone?

What if I told you I contacted Chartes privately yesterday and told him the pontils were new? Would that make you feel better?

(BTW, Charles told me the marble was consigned by a friend and "Inhand the pontil looks like the real deal to me".)

I was only trying to protect Charles' reputation, but apparently it's not as easy as I'd thought. But still, I doubt anyone thinks Charles is trying to pull a fast one on anyone.

[jeroen]

These were my thoughts as well. Charles wouldn't intentionally defraud anyone - period. Why not contact him first instead of calling him out as if he was trying to pull a fast one on someone?

He has probably not seen that there is something wrong with the marble. As I wrote here, I was not the first who noticed, but I have send Charles an email, and explained why I made this post, and that I have no intention of calling him anything. If I knew who he was, I would have emailed him before.

[Gnome Punter]

The OP is raging and lashing out anyway he can as far as I can tell. All under the guise of "educating" others whilst he, himself, claims to have been duped. With that said, since the duping was noticed after he ha

Hello,

1. Have you seen how large this marble is? I like big marbles, except for a very very few exceptions I buy them smaller than 2 inch, So no, I am not bidding on this one.

2. There are a lot of collectors with much more experience than I have. I was not the one who discovered that this marble was reheated. The person who saw it, just told me this to show me they are not as rare as some collectors here on the forum think they are.

Jeroen

Sounds like a line of crap to me.

A birdy told you ? Sounds like your more focused on lashing out in every direction you can in order to make yourself feel better over your own greed screwing you

What is your ebay ID ? I would like to add you to my blocked list on principles

[clydetul62]

Would it have been better if Jeroen had just shown the pics? Instead of link to auction. I have a lot of respect for the seller. Who I consider a friend. But I think Jeroen is getting raked over the coals for the wrong reasons. Ithink people are more mad that he posted the link and not for the pic. Taking aside who the seller is I myself would like to see more examples of this kind of rework.

[hdesousa]

Hey Jeroen,

Two quick questions:

1. Are you planning on sniping this marble at the last minute after keeping the price down and driving away the competition?

2. When did you get appointed as the official Marble Police?

I am comfortable with people sharing their knowledge on fakes, forgeries, and remelts as a general topic but when you start attacking individual listings of a seller with great feed back, don't you think that should be addressed in private between you and the seller and not by throwing a flaming goose over the public transom?

Scott

Two quick questions for you Scott,

1. Why are you maligning Jeroen?

2. Since when does one need an appointment to be " the official Marble Police " before one points out an incorrectly described eBay marble?

Hansel

[lstmmrbls]

And I am glad to see these reworked marbles brought to the forefront. Too many folks do not know what to look for and these type posts help. And maybe Charles should have looked a little closer. Look at the fifth pic for a great example of how dremel work to make pontils always falls below the surface of the marble. At about 11:00 you can really see it. Hopefully he pulls the auction. Oh yea, this is all just the opinion of a semi-educated very opinionated long time marble collector.

[hdesousa]

Would it have been better if Jeroen had just shown the pics? Instead of link to auction. I have a lot of respect for the seller. Who I consider a friend. But I think Jeroen is getting raked over the coals for the wrong reasons. Ithink people are more mad that he posted the link and not for the pic. Taking aside who the seller is I myself would like to see more examples of this kind of rework.

Posting a pic of an incorrectly described eBay marble rather than the link is not the norm on this forum.

What's wrong with posting the link? Is it because Jeroen did it?

So if the seller (whom I also consider a friend) has a good reputation, how will posting the link hurt his reputation, other than to point out that fakes can fool even sellers/collectors with good reputation, maybe even Bernie perhaps?

[moremarbles4me]

I am truly amazed to find one of my auctions listings being the subject hotly bantered about here on the forum. Last night Hansel indeed did contact me about the auction in question as a friend would if he had a concern about it. I told him inhand the pontils look fine to me. Being concerned about what he told me I contacted a couple of handmade collectors today while I was at work. They said they could not tell from the pictures if the marble had been reworked. I work in the field with no internet so I had no idea this thread was even being discussed until someone called me this afternoon.

Do I think the marble has been remelted and the pontils added.....no. Can I explain those scratch like marks Jeroen pointed out....no. If the marble has been reworked would it still have the two small quarter moons I pointed out in my listing. Also would it still have the imperfections in the glass which are common to handmades? Why when I listed this same marble some time back(with a reserve that was not met, hence it being listed again) did'nt someone point this out to me.

Right wrong or indifferent I will end the auction. I appreciate the supportive emails sent to me today from board members advising me to be sure and read the forum tonight.

Charles

[Gnome Punter]

I found issue with his concern of reheating when the images of the marble he had and claims to have been ripped off on, were not sufficient for him to tell and that SOMEONE ELSE told him it was.

So I think jeron's ability to tell what is what from a pic is limited at best and any ascertion made has to take that into consideration

I still think he is on a crusade to vindicate his own feelings

[wediscount2]

The marble in question is absolutely legitimate in every aspect. Ronnie

[richsantaclaus]

Several had the the badly done dremel made pontils. And until the folks reheating them start scratching a signature in them they will be more and more common. I wonder how many Rich alone has done and he is only one of many.

I never EVER have used a Dremel tool on any marble Galen - get your facts straight before making a fool out of yourself in public!

You have no idea of the incorrect statements you make Galen since I think whatever you say you think is the truth no matter of the facts.

Ever tried to reheat just a spot on a marble of that size? No, I didn't think so because if you did you would have seen it explode because of thermal expansion/shocking.

Maybe you should do a bit of research or practical application using glass first before making your personal FALSE judgments of others.

I wonder what your personal and private agenda is here as this seems to be your common thread bashing others without facts or practical experiences in the areas you choose to speak about. I, for one, am getting tired of it and suggest you take several marble making classes using a torch so you'd have some experience so you wouldn't confuse torching with Dremel usage.