Ric

No doubt Bill . . . some of the sweetest marbles ever made, and those are some great examples. I especially like that light blue and yellow one in the first pic - the chalky's pretty sweet too. Are those some kind of Tater Bug variation in the 4th pic? And a sweet rarity in the 5th pic too. VERY NICE! -Ric

Hey Janice, Just a word of caution . . . Peltiers normally have a a really clear base with zero bubbles, and some Heatons and Asians can look similar. Truth is, I'm not sure those are all Pelts - glass, color and structure don't look right on some of them, IMHO. The darker blue and white one lower right might be Pelt though. -Ric

Yeah, I like the blue and green based swirls too. The stripes on some remind me of bacon. -Ric P.S. I like your Avatar!

Hi Folks, I hope you'll grant me some leeway here, but Janice (Delmer) posted some really nice looking marbles over in the ID section. They look Navarre/Leighton to me but we could really use some expert help over there. Please help here and here and, finally, here. Thanks, -Ric

Nothing like a well-used marble bag to bring back good memories. I think I had one that was similar too, but I'm pretty sure I'd be in the "big brother" age bracket. -Ric

I'm with Griff. -Ric

Nice! You don't find those everyday. -Ric

Hey Steve, Not to step on your thread, but I thought you might like this 31/32" MK hybrid four color horseshoe cat. -Ric

Nice . . . really great group! -Ric

Happy Birthday Dave! I wish you many more . . . Birthdays and marbles! -Ric

Yeah Janice, I'd say you've done good with the micas. I have only ever found one in the wild, and it's the only one I've got - pretty nice though. -Ric

Yeah, I've seen a few of those - pretty Tiger Eye-like, IMHO, which makes me think they might be earlier than the more commonly referred to Blackies. -Ric

Thanks Steph, The only real info I have on a timeline is from AMMM, where they suggest that Whities are a later addition to the Vitro line than Blackies. And I agree with you . . . some of the Whities have pretty deep ribbons, but I'm not sure they all do. As for "the blue blackie just left of center in your photograph", that one is as on the surface as all the others - just more thickly applied. In fact, I don't think I've seen any Blackies with any real depth to the ribbons. -Ric

Steve, Why all the buisiness, instead of just the answer? Of course, I know Dave has vast experience and is a heck-of-a marble guy, and I assume he's thought about these issues. But given all the different glass and materials used in the runs, I simply wondered if he had prior experience with these glasses and materials, or whether they were tested prior to their use. A simple, honest and serious question. And what I get in return is a whole bunch of . . . . with an answer buried somewhere in it - I think. -Ric

I really like the new Jabos and my son is downright CRAZY about them, so we have many. I don't know much about glass, but I do like to learn, and I find it sad that any serious or critical discussion of these marbles is near impossible. I think that oldmarblenut's initial message may have been a bit alarmist, and could probably have been worded better, but I think his premise is not unreasonable. With all of the great color and additive combos that have been produced, it seems reasonable that COE might be a concern. And I am sort of surprised that nobody involved in the production of these marbles has yet addressed his point. It's seems pretty simple to me . . . Was any testing done, or was COE considered when purchasing or combining the glass for these marbles? No dissing, no accusations, no alarm - just a question. -Ric

O.K. It just seemed to make sense to me that if white Blackies were run with the other Blackies, the white base might be cheaper glass, since it would normally be covered anyway. OTOH, if black Whities were run with the rest of the Whities, I might expect a better quality of white base glass to be used on them, since most of the marble was white. And while you are correct that there is much variation of non-white color within each group, I am not so sure that the same can be said for the base glass, at least in those that I have. Compare, for example, row 1 marble 3 to row 2 marble 4, and also, marble 1 in rows 3 & 4 to marble 2 in row 3. I think the base is distinctly different, at least in hand. If not, then do we call all white-based black-ribboned marbles Blackies, even if they are in Whitie packaging? Or maybe we just don't classify them as Whities or Blackies, since you can't tell them apart? I didn't think these two types were made at the same time, but of course, I could be wrong on that. Thanks, -Ric

Real nice find Duffy, the colors are sweet. -Ric

Thanks Edna, I knew there are white Blackies. That is, Blackies that are missing the color patches. And I imagine that those marbles were produced using the same white base as the rest of the Blackies. I also believe that Vitro would have used a less expensive white for the base on these marbles, since it most often completely covered anyways. On the other hand, the whities are largely white, and I propose that the base on those marbles is a higher quality white than used on Blackies, since it made up the majority of the marbles surface. I also propose that Vitro made black Whities. Do you know anything about that? I know you have a considerable number of both types, would you mind comparing the white bases and letting me know what you think? Thanks Again, -Ric

I thought one of the patches could be white on Type IIs - am I mistaken? -Ric

Mark, You are correct. But these are all Blackies or Whities. I propose there are black Whities and white Blackies in this group. Of course, they're both white based with black bands - do they look the same to you? -Ric

Here's a pic with representative kin. -Ric

Yeah, I know Glitter Man . . . sorry! But my camera's off on another mission at the moment. I'll try to get some up a bit later today. Thanks, -Ric

I've been looking at my Vitros, which don't get much attention in my house, and I've been comparing what I had separated as White Blackies and Black Whities. This separation was initially based primarily on the lots that the marbles came in - a lot with many Whities and no Blackies, or vice versa, would land the black-ribboned marble along with the rest. And these marbles do appear more at home in one group than the other. It seems that the white base on Blackies is not as bright as that on Whities, and as far as I can tell, the black ribbons are often more thinly applied on the Blackies as well. Does anyone else have other suggestions? Would any one have an idea about the relative numbers of these produced? Thanks, -Ric

In my experience, those with two different colored patches (neither white) and two same colored ribbons around the equator (not white) are harder to find. To the best of my recollection, the only ones I've seen like that have yellow, orange or blue ribbons. So I think the ones you're talking about are even less common. -Ric

As Kevin said, the Freese improvement (mid-1920s) to Akro's machines involved offsetting the rollers to get rid of the heavy crimp marks and associated "eyelashes" at the cutoffs. Pre-Freese style cutoffs are also seen on Master marbles, since the Freese improvement was never incorporated on their machines, which were similar to those used by Akro. That's why it can be difficult to distinguish some early Akros from some Masters. At least this is my understanding. -Ric