Peltier Citrus

[david Chamberlain]

I'm quite sure mon that Galen is not implying that they're still making them. You said this in humor I assume. It is very much in the nature of finds that once they make a splash and people catch on that it's a marble type that has generated considerable interest then they do seem to come out of the woodwork and work their way into the collectors market. I am convinced that there exists still a wealth of marbles that are yet to see the light of day and I'm sure some of them will be complete new surprises. I look forward to it. David

[mon]

Good morning to you David,

You know what they say when you assume. Are we to believe that a marble of this beauty, quanity and spread out from Cali to N.J. went unseen or unknown until 2003..yeah 2003! That's some woodwork! What's the odds?????????

Not saying it happened but, I ask,

What would it take to pull off a fake Petier run?

mon

[lstmmrbls]

It would take a massive ammount of machining and high temp ceramic work(to make the nozzles etc) to make the feeding system for the marbles. it also takes multiple furnaces for the different colors. Being these are multiple stream marbles I imagine it would cost upwards to the 100 thousands to put together the setup necessary to make these types. And then there is all that digging and putting the rejects and broken pieces around the Pelt factory. IMO rediculous to think such an attempt was made. Heck no one has even accurately reproduced the valuable type Pelts why would they copy these?? And I believe they were around before the so called jar find. The exotics would be much much easier to fake.

[mon]

The exotics would be much much easier to fake.

Why?

And then there is all that digging and putting the rejects and broken pieces around the Pelt factory.

Where is this proof?

Heck no one has even accurately reproduced the valuable type Pelts why would they copy these??

There not copies and how about $150 +++ a crack

And I believe they were around before the so called jar find

Now you believe......before you knew?

How about this,

Someone with lots of money.......a peltier marble machine......and a story to slip them in.

Not that I'm saying it happened but...... seems a lot easier than that fake exotics.

mon

[david Chamberlain]

I would have to say that Galen nails it all around. His lucid machine machinations truly put the lie to any manipulations. And while I agree that it would be easier to fake something like the Exotics and numerous glass artists have offed similarities I do consider the Exotics legit based on my personal (in many cases face-to-face) interactions with many of the principal people associated with them. David

P.S. Another point. I can easily accept that a marble might have gone unnoticed as numerous other and similar occurrences have been the order of the day in marbles. There may well have been a few that arrived on the scene prior to the larger find but I would imagine they were just ID'd as some neat hybrid type and tucked away in a Pelt collection.

Heck, in 1987 a major find of Ravenswood marbles was turned up in a WV warehouse and it brought into prominence variations of the Brown Ravenswood marble that had not been given any hoopla prior to that time. These things happen all the time.

[mon]

Yep!! ol'Galen nailed it all around! The blind can now see, I'm here to testify! What was I thinking? nom

[mon]

Yep!! I put them almost right up there with those brown ravenswood's! Ya know, no postings on all the marble boards. Smitty looking at all kinds of pelts at the shows but just never seen one until the jar. I too can believe .....crazy..nom

[I'llhavethat1]

A jar of Citrus-es (or even exotics) sounds good to me. Big ol' jarful of marbles. yum

[psia-antique]

Some people are reputed to be using CAC cullet to make more CACs thses days. Could that also be true of Pelt cullet?

[Al Oregon]

Somewhere in the above, there was a question about whether any were in packaging. With regards to the Peltier Citrus types, Jeff Hale posted a picture of one of the boards back in Feb. 2003 or so. Here it is a Peltier Big Boy bag.

[mon]

I had some similar to these of Jeff's and I think ended up trading them to Peltboy for some MCS. At the New Philly show Smitty id them as not a true citrus and with both together you could see the immediate difference. Mine were more opaque than the translucent citrus. Not saying jeff's aren't but would definitely need a better pic. mon

[Mike]

I have read this thread with great interest to have it all boil down to this.......The loyal daughter stayed by her comatose mother's side at the hospital for weeks....24 hours a day. All the staff tried to get her to go home but to no avail. When asked why she stayed, she answered that she had once read or heard that sometimes a person snaps out of it and if her mother did, she needed to hear her mother's last words. Sure enough, her mother came to. Mom looked up at her daughter and the two nurses standing at the foot of the bed and asked her daughter if the two persons standing on either side of her were the angels come to take her to heaven. Jane said...No mom, you know nurse Betty and Sue Ann. Her mother exclaimed..."Oh Shit!" and passed.

Is this thread pretty much cooked or not?

[Steph]

Is this thread pretty much cooked or not?

It seems to be going along just fine. Thank you for your concern.

[lstmmrbls]

I think one person seems to disagree with the facts the there were citris types dug at the factory site. Why, I do not know. The digger has nothing to do with the so called jar find and does not sell the pelts that were dug. And certainly has absolutely no reason to lie about where they came from. His friend was once part owner of Peltier which allowed him some limited digging adventures. I should add that there are many many peewee type Pelts that very closely resemble the citri. And yes some CAC cullet is used to make marbles. Only an amateur newbie collector would not know they were made in a torch flame. the designs of a Citris would prevent even a slightly similar marble to be made with a torch. Heck I would offer 1000 dollars to anyone that could make one that could not be told apart. Peace,Galen

[Mike]

It seems to be going along just fine. Thank you for your concern.

[Chuck G]

Hey members if you all will allow me to make a comment or two on this matter you have been talking about. There have been some really good comments and insights to this subject. As a very long time collector some years back i heard all about the exotics and what they were and which maker done them. With some very good conversation with fellow collector/dealers and vise versa. I weighed all the very good information and in my opinion i stayed away from purchasing any of them, that was just me. The term exotics is a great term and very easily be used for rare CACs. I can kinda go with that term for them. I heard a lot of stories on them, some good and some bad. With CACS production color palat, exoctics is a good overall description of them. One just might even say to that (please dont beat me on this) that some of the Jabos could even fall into that classification. Now for the PELTIER citruses being called that in my opinion NO and my reasons i can show you almost every aspect of most citrus types you want to see in my collection. I just dont feel that peltier made a marble that would fall into an exotic group however they fell into the very rare group. Exoctic is a term a lot of us like to use but its just a descriptive term to make it a more attractive selling point. I guess to each his or her use of the English langusage!!!

[Mike]

Yes! You are so right! After Al posted an original bag, it seems that there might be some continued controversy as to the color variations. I am not really sure if the color variation could happen but submit this as evidence......One time, I saw a 2,000 pound run of plain red and white marbles at a factory and there were a few pounds that looked a little different even though they were all pretty much a common red and white marble yet not all of them were alike. Go figure! As for the thread, I kept waiting for the black alien ships to swoop in and take all the marble people to another planet. Lots of suspense, conjecture & conspiracy.

[Steph]

Yes! You are so right! After Al posted an original bag, it seems that there might be some continued controversy as to the color variations.

I thought that the bag Al posted contained marbles close to an inch. How large are citruses? Also, to me the stripings don't look very close to the typical citrus variations.

I waited to see what others thought and Mon confirmed my doubt.

My guess would have been that the marbles Al posted were made decades apart from the citruses. I would have guessed the citruses to be an older marble - say from the 1930's, and thus from the time when original packaging would have included mesh bags, not plastic.

.... just my hunch based on the general appearance of the marbles.

[moremarbles4me]

The marbles in the bag that Al posted are not a Citrus type. The marbles in the bag have a opaque base and have been called a Juicy Fruit for as long as I can remember. A totally different marble then the Citrus types.

Charles

a not very good picture of one of mine

[mon]

I think some people are missing the point of this thread.

think one person seems to disagree with the facts the there were citris types dug at the factory site. Why, I do not know. The digger has nothing to do with the so called jar find and does not sell the pelts that were dug. And certainly has absolutely no reason to lie about where they came from. His friend was once part owner of Peltier which allowed him some limited digging adventures.

Yes, you are right that I am one person. As for the FACT that they were dug at the factory site...why...I don't know? Let me try a different approach........ I know a friend of a friend that is a distant relative of Arnold Fiedler. He let him dig at the old CAC factory site in his will. He claims he found whole and cullet of every exotic known to man. He lives with a lie detector attached at all times and my friend watched the needles. Wow, how easy was that ... cleared up this whole...real/fake CAC exotic thangy!

Thank you people that are thinking!

mon

[Steph]

When Migbar says citruses were found at the factory, I believe him. I have yet to see any reason to question his credibility with regard to Peltish matters.

.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Steph

[psia-antique]

I think Migbar would admit that most of what he has learned about Pelt comes from two major sources. They are the contents of a safe to which he keeps alluding, but has never posted any of the data itself. His other prime source of info is a gentleman who was born and raised in Ottawa and lives a couple of blockes from the factory today.

That gentleman was very certain about one thing today. There is an urn that has "all known" (dangerous words) Pelts from the beginning until 1931 on its exterior. There are no green lanterns or citrus marbles on that urn. So, what do we know for "sure?"

We know that if the citus marbles were made before 1930 they were very short run or an experiment. If they were made after 1930, we have no proof of anything.

I think this a great thread, but it proves just how hard it is to flesh out the facts of marble manufacture.It looks like no one has proven anything except that we all need to slowly collect more data until this can be proven one way or another.

[Steph]

I think Migbar would admit that most of what he has learned about Pelt comes from two major sources. They are the contents of a safe to which he keeps alluding, but has never posted any of the data itself. His other prime source of info is a gentleman who was born and raised in Ottawa and lives a couple of blockes from the factory today.

That gentleman was very certain about one thing today. There is an urn that has "all known" (dangerous words) Pelts from the beginning until 1931 on its exterior. There are no green lanterns or citrus marbles on that urn. So, what do we know for "sure?"

We know that if the citus marbles were made before 1930 they were very short run or an experiment. If they were made after 1930, we have no proof of anything.

What does that have to do with whether or not Citrus marbles and pieces were found at the factory?

[migbar]

Hi Steve,

Sorry, I didn't realize that I keep alluding to the Peltier papers from the safe, I thought that was Galen. I do not have permission to post any of the paperwork here or anywhere else, but I have done so here on occasion.

Yes, I've learned a lot from the papers, and Gino, and many others. The urn is covered with 3/4" to one inch marble halfs and is dated 1931, but several important marbles are not presented on it, and I would guess that the citrus marbles came after 1931. I have never seen a 3/4" one. They are a complicated marble, and I would surmise that they were made for a very short time.

thank you for your concern.

mike b.

[mon]

These are not my words but Galen's from the first page

:

A lot of folks can agree to a story for big bucks at any time and any place.

I'm just using the same rules as to those that have many people, not all, scared to buy these exotics.

Maybe it's really true about the cullet & marbles being dug. Just after making the final good stuff, the rest was buried and dug up......in 2002. lol

mon