Incredible Nice Gutta Percha Marble!

[jeroen]

It arrived today, together with an other fantastic marble, I will post about later.

Look at this marble. Lutz all over! It seems to be on fire. It is mint, and just over 2-1/4 inch.

I first thought it is not glass so could this be my kind of marble, but it is a true eye catcher!

Jeroen

[Steph]

Lutz???!!!

Would have been neato without the lutz. I don't remember ever hearing of them with lutz. But maybe I just haven't paid that much attention since I've assumed I'll never get one.

[jeroen]

I don't know if it is exact the same kind of lutz used in glass, but search for old auctions at Morphy and there are two others with this gold color.

Well perhaps there is a gutta percha expert out there who can tell what it is.

Jeroen

[clydetul62]

A few years ago a number of these came out of New Zealand. For some reason as well all the bigger ones have this type of pattern. Unlike the flame type pattern of the smaller ones.

[BobBlock]

I've bought two of these over the years, and still have both. One I purchased in England, the other I bought from a dealer here (who also got it from England I think). One of them has the brown "lutz", though as someone mentioned above it is not glass.

[wediscount2]

That's a fantastic looking marble. Ronnie

[jeroen]

This one came from England also. These marbles are made from a kind of latex (that is what wikipedia says) So I can imagine that lutz was mixed in this latex. As lutz is not glass, but a kind of copper particles, I think it could be mixed very easily.

I posted a new photo made by daylight, so the colors are more acurate

Jeroen

[jeroen]

Here is a close up from what I think is lutz. It is not paint. The particles are clearly visible.

Jeroen

[hdesousa]

Here is a close up from what I think is lutz. It is not paint. The particles are clearly visible.

Jeroen

To me, it looks like bronze alloy flakes, applied as a paint, topped with a clear coating. For example:

http://www.goldliquidpaint.com/

But you can, of course, call it lutz. Some marble collector will give you more for it.

[jeroen]

Can you tell me how they have done it? They first make the gutta percha latex marble. Than the carve out all the place where the bronze alloy flakes should be. Than they just put that bronze alloy flake paint in a thickness just a little less than the depth of the carving, and than they put the clear coating on, to make it exact the same height as the rest of the marble?

Seems almost impossible to do in that way. It still looks like lutz particles to me.

Bob, you have a similar marble with this gold color. Do you think it is paint?

Jeroen

[hdesousa]

Jeroen, I have no idea how the marble was made. Could the gold paint not have been applied same time the rest of the design was done?

Actually I don't even know if it is a marble or a Christmas ornament or something else. Not everything round is a marble, but if you call it a marble, chances are it will sell better.

I can tell you, if it's the same composition as the smaller ones with flame decoration as Clyde mentioned, the design is only on the surface.

The interior is a dark composite material. A couple years ago a polymer chemist friend and marble collector analyzed a piece of a "gutta-percha" marble I'd given him. Ran it through $10K worth of electron and optical microscopy, infrared and X-ray spectroscopy. Turns out to be silica (+ other fillers), cellulose, tree resins and shellac. There was no gutta-percha in the marble.

Another misnomer, but not of your making. However, you should watch and learn from this:

http://www.booknotes.org/Watch/110971-1/Larry+Tye.aspx

[hdesousa]

Jeroen,

Marble collectors used to call these "paper-mache" marbles - some probably still do.

It's been confusing. Search paper marche or gutta percha on the forums.

Here's an example:

http://marbleconnection.com/topic/8122-paper-mache/?hl=%2Bpaper+%2Bmache

Now we call them gutta-percha marbles, but you can easily prove to yourself it's not gutta percha by measuring its density.

Gutta percha has a density of around 1.0 gm/ml.

I calculated the density of one of these small marbles at 1.4 (from the diameter and weight).

What's the density of your marble, assuming it is not hollow?

[MC Marbles]

Here is a couple of photos from Zaboo

(I hope you don't mind my posting them!)

[lstmmrbls]

It is a paint of sorts. Not lutz in any way.

[savage-28]

It looks like it belongs with zaboo's gutta perchas. It's a nice one!!

[clydetul62]

This one gave its life for science.

[jeroen]

diameter is 58 mm, makes it 102 cm3 Weight is 165 grams. Makes it 1,6 grams per cm3. Density is 1.6. It is not hollow and not solid gutta percha latex. From internet: At room temperature, industrial gutta-percha is a solid skinlike substance that is white to yellowish-brown in color, with a density of 0.945–0.955 g/cm³

^{I don't know if industrial gutta percha latex is the same as natural. Perhaps only the outside is gutta percha. But what is the inside? Does paper mache has a density of 1.6?}

But still the marble is very nice!

[BuckEye]

I just found a paper weight with a very similar color combo as your marble. There is a small chip in it, which is exacly why I bought it. The underlying material is a white crockery of some sort and the design consisits of several layers of "paint" or a thin glaze. The surface of the paperweight is crazed, so im not sure if its old paint or glaze. Ill get pics up tonight. Its about 2 1/4" in diameter and is solid and fairly heavy for its size.

Craig

[BuckEye]

one more view. so are these old or what?

Craig

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

DANG IT!----I thought I was gonna see a killer stringer of yellow perch!

PSSSSST,,,,,,Realy nice marbles,all!

[hdesousa]

I just found a paper weight with a very similar color combo as your marble. There is a small chip in it, which is exacly why I bought it. The underlying material is a white crockery of some sort and the design consisits of several layers of "paint" or a thin glaze. The surface of the paperweight is crazed, so im not sure if its old paint or glaze. Ill get pics up tonight. Its about 2 1/4" in diameter and is solid and fairly heavy for its size.

Craig

Craig,

Thanks for posting the pics. Very informative. Now, to find someone or some website to tell us what we're looking at.........

Ann, would you know the technique used to make this design and the materials used? (p.s.Still have not found my blacklight)

Hansel

[bumblebee]

Are these really marbles, or were they like rubber balls originally that have since hardened?

[jeroen]

I just found a paper weight with a very similar color combo as your marble. There is a small chip in it, which is exacly why I bought it. The underlying material is a white crockery of some sort and the design consisits of several layers of "paint" or a thin glaze. The surface of the paperweight is crazed, so im not sure if its old paint or glaze. Ill get pics up tonight. Its about 2 1/4" in diameter and is solid and fairly heavy for its size.

Craig

I don't know what the inside is. Zaboo told me that they cut one in half with a saw, and it gave sparks! But I am not cutting mine to find out what it is ;-)

[lstmmrbls]

clydes pic shows whats inside. Craig (IMO) your ball is a new creation

[hdesousa]

clydes pic shows whats inside. Craig (IMO) your ball is a new creation

The marble Clyde pictured was a damaged small "gutta-percha" marble donated by an ebay seller from the UK. It's the one I dismantled and had analyzed Turned out to be made of silica (+ other fillers), cellulose, tree resins and shellac. No gutta perche. The big ones seem to have a completely different decoration than the small ones, and from what Jeroen says, are more dense than what I found the small ones to be. Perhaps they have a different core?

Craig's damaged paperweight with the white ceramic core looks old to me. Doesn't it have the same decoration as the large "gutta-perche" marbles?