Mf Christensen Red Slags

[ann]

That is NICE.

[Road Dog]

Thanks

[lstmmrbls]

Looks like a killer CAC to me?

[Road Dog]

Could be Galen.

[lstmmrbls]

And as for the transitional red Germans, They are probably from a date after MFCs were made. It is the handgathered ground pontils that are earlier.

[ann]

I

Craig, out the wazoo.......not sure how many that is but for fun lets say your wazoo holds 4,799 plus one . . . HG red slags

In conclusion, I'd just like to say that I think this number is a high one if we're talkin' your average wazoo.

[mon]

I'm glad that some of you were open enough to reconsider the evidence.

The following is just my opinion: I think MF was a shrewd business man and would have tested many options in narrowing his product line to just 6 play marbles. He had the money from selling his steel ball bearing machine rights alone = almost 3/4 of a million in todays money. He lived in style and treated his business and workers with great respect! The marbles them self are the reason I believe.......... as earlier stated, cut marks are out the window. Records, out the window. Records, out the window. Small area dug, out the window. Lack of transitional colors before with at least a 22 color pallet (from scrap so it was used or tried) of Leighton's that all don't show up in transitional melted pontil marbles either, out the window.

Then again, bricks may have been all the red he needed! Expense on paper and what they needed to sell for..trashed.

One neat tid bit is that MF's ratio for base to white was 50/50 and Akro was, base to white 60 to 80%.

Ann, they are great marbles to hold and to think how much pride went into the skill of doing this day in day out. Pay was by piece work and after a few years I bet they could do it with their eyes closed. To eliminate the shearer's duty of cutting and performing other task like changing buckets, greasing etc put more money in their pockets. Would have been a sight to see.............

As for the volume a wazoo has....first testing does proved that my numbers ARE way off! Thanks for the debate.......Happy New Year ....mon

[greg11]

I think this is the only yellow MFC made, very opaque and you can barely see the "9" Very rare, like the Persians. Most yellows you see are CA.

[BuckEye]

Greg those yellows are super HTF. People gloss over them. Not us buddy. Mfc had good quality control but there were some errors that slipped through. I collect these three color slags, like Amber base with green mixed in or these oxblood slags with the xtra colors on the cut side.

[greg11]

wow, very nice, look at that cut, super. very odd color green I've never seen any like it and look at the condition!

[ann]

Picking one last nit, just want it to be clear that when I refer to MFC cut marks I'm not referring to anything that can be felt; generally they can only be seen.

Like the one on the afore-posted green slag . . .

[mon]

Ann,

Not sure what the difference is in determining maker? If one team cuts a thick streamed glob and the other team controls this glob in a way that it is so thin that cutting is not needed then, the appearance would encompass many different traits. I picture in my mind a glob tilted quickly towards the feed and when in rhythm to control size is pulled back, dropped forward again to grab the thin tail and wrapped and snapped by the punty glob. This would look nothing like the 3/4" straight cut seen on some when finished.

[lstmmrbls]

I believe it is just a lot of conjecture about not shearing handgathered marbles. It was a process paid piece work so time was extremely important. It was also a shearer and a gatherer at each machine. It is extremely hard for me to think of a guy standing there waiting for the perfect sized glob to drip all the way off a punty. Sorry, just not buying it. And I think the marbles I have with nice tails still show a cut mark with the tail occasionally being lost in the shear mark?(gonna have to check).......Just checked and yes the tail comes off the 9 side and is the stringer that comes out of the pot when pulling up the glob, not from the end that that leaves the punty last. Now if we are talking hand rounded marbles like Harveys' melted pontils I can see some of those not having to have the break off point melted.

And if a team was standing at a machine for 8 hours out of their day with no breaks for glass pot deliveries doing nothing but gathering and shearing they where making a mable approximately every 2.9 seconds. At those speeds(and actually probably much faster) I don't think anyone was waiting for a drip of glass to run all the way off the punty.

[mon]

I believe it was you and others that recommended reading the book. Now, you don't believe what's in the book? I'm not selling..........page 84 states "blah blah "worker using the punty to become so adept at judging the correct amount of glass required, that he could drop a glob of molten glass into the machine without having the second member of the team reach over and cut the dripping glass".

If You or I made that many marbles per day for that many years, I believe you would be surprise of the possibilities...

[lstmmrbls]

Didn't mean to sound like I was attacking you. Yes I think that was conjecture in the book. Look at the marbles with nice tails, they all still have a shear mark. And the tail comes from the side of the glob as it is pulled from the pot. Not as it drips off a punty. (just saying). .......... All those machine mades with long drizzles also have been through a shear(although quite a bit different than a pair of scissors)

[mon]

Most all of my "tails" are the thin beginnings of the "nine" not from the sheared or not sheared end. It looks as if the "tail" was spun back onto the glob remaining on the punty after the release of the marble before. I'm sure more than one marble worth of glass was gathered at one time. Cohill would not have come up with the shearer being benched and believe it was passed to him by Mrs. Dietz. It makes sense to become lore within the family as to how proud and skilled their employees became. What makes less sense is that Cohill pulled this out of thin air or a dream. and we can do the "just saying" game for as long as you like. I haven't felt attacked by anyone an hope no one feels attacked by me. Opinions and an open mind is how I started and will end this discussion. I was not aware of this book and thought it was determined by digs alone and had doubt. Later, this book was offered as a closed case and Cohill had all the marbles, records and everything proving the belief of no red slags. I thought I had been enlightened and understood. Not the case as I've tried to point out the reasoning. I'm not saying MFC made all red 9 and tail slags....not at all....but I think they may have made some. Lots of people have read this thread but have few comments...not sure why.....this is what makes AAM site more interesting to some......banter! I'm here to learn and if my methods are not as most....I'm truly sorry. Doug

P.S. Craig has been to my house and I believe he is a very knowledgeable, kind, willing to share and has an infectious passion for marbles! I would call him a friend.

[migbar]

[ann]

I have a diagram made by Brian Graham showing how nines were formed, but I can't "upload this type of file," here, whatever that means. Could I try to email it to you Steph, on the chance that you could get it to magically appear here? I think it would be interesting --

[Steph]

Sure. I'll PM my email in case you don't have it yet.

[Steph]

Here ya go

[mon]

Most all of my "tails" are the thin beginnings of the "nine" not from the sheared or not sheared end. It looks as if the "tail" was spun back onto the glob remaining on the punty after the release of the marble before. I'm sure more than one marble worth of glass was gathered at one time.

Thanks Ann! The visual is much better than my written description.

Neat pic ~a~ mig?

[I'llhavethat1]

This is some interesting stuff

[lstmmrbls]

Yes, that is what I was describing. His diagram just does not show how the glass is picked up by swirling the punty in the glass that gives the 9 pattern. O/T I think CAC also taught their gatherers other methods besides swirling in a circular motion that resulted in hand gathered marbles that did not necessarily exhibit a 9. Did Brian say he ever went for more than 1 marble per gather.(never mind ,his are hand rounded so only one would ever be made at a time)

I also think the more than one marble per gather story is pure conjecture and highly unlikely. And will think that way until someone shows me handgathered MFC marbles with 2 shear marks. (The tail and the 9 both disappear from the glass gathered on the punty when the marble is sheared. I believe a gatherer was taught to get just enough glass for one marble so most of the glass was off the punty when going in for another gather. A big glob would be just that, a big glob, and would come off the punty that way. Not a little bit at a time so several marble could be made with a single gather. And yes Mon I have watched literally hundreds of glass globs gathered on to punties. It flows off in a glob the size of the gather

[mon]

Galen, I don't think you get it? The shear or cut mark is at the very end of a thin tail that starts the nine on the next marble. So, in reality there are two cut or shear marks at both ends if it was sheared or cut in the first place.........

[mon]

Also, from Mig's pic, where do you think the glass to dip from is located? They ran multiple machines in a row (per the book) and by your calculations of one marble every 2.9 seconds would be quite a feat to run back, gather and drop the load 9,931 times shift with no break or lunch included.