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What the Hell... and I thought it was an Alley...


manddrakes
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Jabo made tons of 9/16 marbles with oxblood. Many of the Jabo tank wash marbles were 1/2-9/16-5/8 and had oxblood . DAS makes swirl marbles 1/2 to 3/4 or larger. Sammy's Mountain Marbles has produced swirl marbles 1/2 to 11/16.   They all produced marbles in the US. They all try to produce what people want and what people buy. If not they have no business. Why would anyone make dark ugly marbles intentionally. People years ago liked oxblood on marbles. So people still like oxblood on marbles made the last ten years ?  Why is the marble worth $57.00 if a Alley and worth $1.00-5.00 if Jabo ? Did the marble change looks ? Why is a CAC worth $300.00 and when I tell a seller it is a Alley the price is immediately marked to $30.00. Did the same exact marble change while I blinked ? People buy a name not the marble. Everyone makes mistakes buyers and sellers. It has happened since people started collecting marbles and it will happen as long as people collect marbles. I bought my first Alley Blue Lady as a CAC from a well known CAC collector and authority. But I discovered two years later that it was more likely made by Alley. Then I had to prove for myself if it was CAC or Alley. I did and they were produced by Alley. Not CAC as people had thought for years. If you are going to collect or sell marbles ? You will find mistakes and or make mistakes. I am sure that it is impossible to know or learn every marble that has ever been made. Now you and the buyer plus maybe a few more are more familiar with another marble. I don't think I have ever seen a Alley with that much oxblood or that color combination. But no way have I seen every marble Alley produced, and I never will. If it looks to good to be true, many times it is. 

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On 2/17/2018 at 10:49 AM, wvrons said:

Jabo made tons of 9/16 marbles with oxblood. Many of the Jabo tank wash marbles were 1/2-9/16-5/8 and had oxblood . DAS makes swirl marbles 1/2 to 3/4 or larger. Sammy's Mountain Marbles has produced swirl marbles 1/2 to 11/16.   They all produced marbles in the US. They all try to produce what people want and what people buy. If not they have no business. Why would anyone make dark ugly marbles intentionally. People years ago liked oxblood on marbles. So people still like oxblood on marbles made the last ten years ?  Why is the marble worth $57.00 if a Alley and worth $1.00-5.00 if Jabo ? Did the marble change looks ? Why is a CAC worth $300.00 and when I tell a seller it is a Alley the price is immediately marked to $30.00. Did the same exact marble change while I blinked ? People buy a name not the marble. Everyone makes mistakes buyers and sellers. It has happened since people started collecting marbles and it will happen as long as people collect marbles. I bought my first Alley Blue Lady as a CAC from a well known CAC collector and authority. But I discovered two years later that it was more likely made by Alley. Then I had to prove for myself if it was CAC or Alley. I did and they were produced by Alley. Not CAC as people had thought for years. If you are going to collect or sell marbles ? You will find mistakes and or make mistakes. I am sure that it is impossible to know or learn every marble that has ever been made. Now you and the buyer plus maybe a few more are more familiar with another marble. I don't think I have ever seen a Alley with that much oxblood or that color combination. But no way have I seen every marble Alley produced, and I never will. If it looks to good to be true, many times it is. 

Now I understand why so many vintage collectors are flustrated... I still think that producing these in the smaller size will cause confusion. 

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Any size can cause confusion.  I have a 3/4 Jabo on my key chain as a reminder. I bought it at a show thinking it was Alley. When I got home I realized that I already had several of them,  Jabo's.  I wanted it to be a Alley. So my mind made it a Alley, with help from a good salesman. But the truth was it is a Jabo.  Many 7/8 Jabo older classics and newer ones are confused with Alley's.  Again I know very few honest collectors of any time that has not had a marble which they thought was a certain one and find out later that it was not what they thought. Many Vacor marbles have been purchased as vintage. Mistaken identity has always happened and always will. If no new machine made marbles are produced in the next 50 years. One hundred percent of machine made marbles will not be identified correctly. The big profit or gain did not happen with this marble because you were honest and collectors want to buy a name. The marble never ever changed from when you listed it or after it was sold.  More than one person thought it looked like a $50.00 marble. If Alley had made it, we have no way of knowing how many he might have made. If Jabo or DAS made it, we have no way of knowing how many were made.  Either maker maybe 100 or maybe 5000 ???  Alley Jabo DAS Vacor collectors want to buy company names what ever the marble looks like.  I have heard buyers say, it is ugly but it is Peltier or Akro or CAC.  I doubt you will lose money with this marble, unless you purchased it with the Alley name. But just not receive the big gain you once thought. In the long run many times things equal out for sellers or buyers. 

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When it comes to why 50 for an Alley and 5 for a Jabo I say it is because the Jabos were made as collectibles for collectors.  Exactly the same reason the mint Morgan can be 5000 and the Franklin Mint coin 50.  no difference at all IMO.  As for the Alley and CAC difference I believe it is Eye appeal and rarity more so than a name.  I have looked through 10s of thouasands of marble in collections out here in CA and it is extremely rare to find even a common CAC swirl.  Much less common than even Pelt NLRs.  As for Alley Agates thousands upon thousands.   I have to disagree it is a just a name thing.  I went through thousands and thousands of Bert Cohens machine made marbles after he passed.  I do not remember even finding one half way decent CAC,  But I found thousands of new run Jabos and Alley Agates, just sayin

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I can agree with some of the above as usual. But not 100% of Jabos(even including investor runs)were made as collectibles. I was a investor in 25 or 30 runs or more and gave marbles away to children for play from every run, and I definitely was not alone. They were made as collectibles and for play and to make smiles and friends. But the king of evil took over many people. Would production numbers and years in operation have something to do with the amount available ?  Who produced the most marbles Alley or CAC ?  Here I see a lot more plain two color CAC than I do even plain Peltier. Location can have something to do with what is available or seen.  I have and others with me have witnessed it. A two color swirl marble is marked CAC for $300.00. Then they find out it is really Alley and in seconds the price is marked to $10.00 . I saw a long time 30+ year CAC collector who lives in Cambridge do the above. Mike R. from OH did it almost every time he ask me to pick out his Alleys from his CAC's. So for me I saw it as a name thing. If it was not CAC it made no difference who made it or how many or what it looked like. The same exact marble went from hundreds of dollars to ten dollars. I collect CAC and pay hundreds for some, but I doubt many are simple two color swirls. I bought my first Alley Blue Lady as a CAC. I paid $100.00 nm condition at an early New Philly show from a well know CAC dealer. I had looked at them for a couple years but that was a higher price marble for me. But I bought it and liked it enough to search it out and find out it was produced by Alley. As we know the price dropped. The same number of Blue lady marbles were produced and out there for collectors 20+ years ago when they were CAC. But once they were known produced by Alley the value dropped. Any marble is just a piece of glass. Most were made as cheap toys. Any one of them is only worth what someone will pay for it.  More than one person was willing to pay for the original one above. The problem was that by mistake it was identified incorrect. Which very few if any of us have never done. Buy the name and you may be disappointed just as the above buyer may be or not be ?  How many times do collectors buy a CAC sold as a Alley ? Over the last 25 years more actual Alleys were sold as CAC. Look at all the Alleys listed as CAC on ebay for a month. Then look at all the CAC listed as Alleys on ebay for a month. I still sell plain two color swirl CAC marbles for more than I can any of the other swirl companies,plain two color swirls. Want rare by numbers how about Davis Marble Works ? What about Jackson with about one box car produced. But they are all still $10.00 or less. We all have opinon's and they are usually based on our own collections and friends. Just sayin many times there are two sides to most things. 

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Not a personal attack here in any way but "investor" has always been an...interesting...term to me.  Is there a hope on the part of the people involved that these will appreciate in value in the future and that's why there is so much push back all the time?  Or was this genuinely for fun and recreation, serious question.  If it's the latter, great, if it's the former...well...

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The answer for that is both. Some people involved with money invested were for fun, recreation, learning and a hopes of a profit. Some people involved with money invested were there purely for hopes of a profit. I made a profit on most runs and lost money on some. It the end it worked out ok. I made a lot of good and long time friends and a great learning experience with marbles and marble making equipment. Individual people invested from $500.00 to $5000.00 average each per run. A few more and a few less. But most people do not pay that kind of money with only hopes of fun and recreation alone. I tried and did most times get all my investment back in a year or less. Never any plan on holding them for years and appreciate in the future. I had the advantage of picking my favorites from my share and still have those. I currently have as many or more old Jabo classics before the investor runs as investor runs. These investor runs were over a 4-5 year period and 60-70 different runs. The runs having most times from six to twenty investors from all over the country. Each investor could gave a different amount invested. The money invested determined the amount of the share of the total marbles good and bad. There was never any guarantee of any kind, for what marbles you would receive or how many. Some runs in the end were much better than others in all ways. I did not give someone $1000.00 to later receive a few boxes of totally unknown marbles. I also had hopes of fun, learning and meeting friends with a chance of a profit. Some people doubled or more their investment with a run. I did not, not on any run. I might have if maybe I had not gave so many away free. A few people here and some no longer here, received them. Plus kids that I gave them to at shows about 8-10 times a year from Kansas, Texas and  most all between.  I do events with kids every year local and they always have received free marbles. So kids did receive them for toys and I was not alone. My shares were not 100% made for collectors only. There were hundreds of people involved over the years. Many people returned again or for several runs. I cannot speak for each one of them. I don't understand how people who were not investors in a few runs do speak about and for all the investors. Again there might be two sides. Maybe one if you were a investor and had the experience.  Another side if you never invested any money or had the experience start to finish. The more times the more money invested on the line and the more experience and not hearsay, maybe they would know ? Jabo is still in business today. I like a few marbles including play or collector marbles still being produced in the US. I can not say or prove how much of my money paid bills for Jabo. But I have no doubts that Jabo Co. received some of my money and I helped pay some Jabo expenses. This has all been hashed out over and over every year many times since the first few Jabo special investor runs. I have again said way to much. Just another opinion from someone who was there many times start to finish. 

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