Tommy Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Im confused on brushed patch, all these measure .64 except the purple patch is .58. The wales type Japanese marble is throwing me off .is it glass quality and the seam pattern that distinguish these apart from American mibs. Last pic is all wales Japanese mibs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad G. Posted January 20, 2021 Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 They all look Vitro & master to me, I'm not Very familiar with either. Don't collect them only incidental catches. Best wait for a few more to chime in on this one. Best guess is the first 11 pics all look Vitro for sure to me, I think they're called phantom conquerors. And the first one in the last pic sure looks like a Master brushed patch ?? I don't want to mislead so I'm out on this one Tommy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 20, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2021 Chad your input is always appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Most above are Vitro Conquerors (white veneer on surface) or Vitro Phantom Conquerors (white wispy threads). But Nos. 2, 3 & 5 below look Asian to me - the first may be Master and the 4th is Vitro. Just my 2 cents. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Thanks Ric. I'll take any cents I can get .🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad G. Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Well I got em all except those foreign jobs, I have some but never knew what they where, I always thought the wales were bigger?? Recognized the veneered Vitro and yes I agree on the first one last pic being a Master brushed patch also, just 2,3 & 5, I have 100's of marbles like them in a jars somewhere in every color conceivable. Would be nice to at least know what I have after this many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 I posted some of the big wales mibs thinking vitro. So then I had to go through my cabinet and pull what looked like wales .some are hard to tell apart. But now with the white and green vitro as a reference I can jar up the Japanese. And make room. As always thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 I think the marbles are referred to as Wales, simply because some were packaged in Wales jobber bags (I'll bet Al has one he could show us), But I have seen Cat's Eyes packaged in Wales bags too. I think some would refer to the marbles shown above as "Pincers". They're a little different than the Japanese "Mt. Fuji's" Al posted in another thread (and I copied below.) The "Pincers" are a brushed (or veneered) marble. The seams are a bit more like Master but one tends to have a real tight U-shape (like shown on Tommy's right marble). All of this is, AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Tommy, Check out the tight U-shaped seams on the Pincers you posted elsewhere (you can see it easily on the left marble): You really won't see that shape of seam on Vitros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Tommy, One more quick tip: on the Pincer-types the seams are often open (you can see the clear - the colors are separated, kind of like a "split" in the seam). This is also not a common trait on Vitros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Thanks again Ric. That explanation gave me the ahh ha moment. I can see it clearer now when I'm looking at it now. The info you all have is absolutely priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 I agree with Ric,. One of the easiest ways to spot a Wales, Pincer, or Asia, Japan, patch marbles is the small clear jagged window opening at the seam or cut line. Usually where the white and the other color meets. If it is a single solid color marble, this small clear window will still be there. These Wales, Pincer, Imperial, Asia or Japan type patch or solid marbles also have a seam or cut line very much like, almost exact as Master. These very curved ,more pointed cut lines are with these marbles only. Usually one cut line is curved more to a rounded point outward and the opposite cut line is curved rounded inward. They can also have marks or eyelash marks at the cut like some Akro does. But Akro, Vitro, or Master, do not have this small clear round or near round jagged hole at the cut line. Study the cut lines on all above. Look for the small clear window at the cut line. With the Vitro Conqueror and other Vitros the colors meet closer together at the cut line. Plus tghe cut line is not rounded or curved as much. None of the Vitro does the cut line curve inward. Cut lines are not always 100% the same, even with one company. Fopr different reasons, temp, how sharp the cutter blade is, etc. It is go with the majority again. Find more than one trait to identify a marble. The more traits you find the better the identification will be. Traits can be size, colors, color pattern, cut line, orange peel, base glass, uv on not, quality glass, etc. Brushed patch is usually attached to Master. Some Vitro and Marble King patches are normally know as veneered patch . If you say I found a brushed patch today. About all, if not all experienced collectors will assume you found a Master marble. Not a Vitro, or Wales, Pincer, foreign to the US marble. Enlarge the green box of marbles above. Look at the clear opening at the pointed cut line on marbles in every row. Then look at Vitro veneered patches. Master and Imperial, Asia, Japan marbles will be more alike than the Vitros. The Wales, and Pincher are usually always clear base. Some Imperial are opaque base. A lot of brushed patch Masters have colored transparent base. Some Master and Imperial come down to colors. Master and Imperial cut lines are very much alike, but not like any others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Ron you are awesome. That just clarified a bunch of questions I had all in one post.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad G. Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Great info folks, another post that started out so small and bloomed into a great pool of knowledge " Fantastic" just why I'm here, the learning and sharing never ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berryb Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Another question: Ron mentions above "quality glass" and I have seen it referred to several times in other posts recently. So what do you look for to determine quality in glass? Thanks Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 IMO, glass quality can mean a few different things - sometimes, you see it all together. It can mean a more tinted or gray-hazy looking clear (look at good Vitros and Pelts for examples of bright crystal clear glass), or colors that are weak (not a lot of pigment) or that aren't evenly distributed (thick and thin spots), or the glass can just be kind of weak and prone to scratches and chips. It's sort of hard to describe, more like something you just come to recognize after you've closely examined a few hundred thousand marbles. Some types are just known to have "poor glass quality" and sometimes the only way you realize it is after you've seen 50 of the same marbles and 35 turn out to look that way. If someone says, "These are pretty common but they're really hard to find in good condition", it's probably because the glass quality isn't what it could be. Sometimes, it''s just from manufacturers trying to save money and materials during a particularly rough patch - like during WWII - you can see it on quite a few Vitro Conquerors, which are just sort of cheaply made. (That's not to say there aren't some awesome Conquerors!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berryb Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 The reason I ask is, I have this one. Everything about it says good glass to me; the red is crystal clear, not even a bubble, the white is bright. The issue is, I think it's more modern. When I think of a modern mib I think of cheaper glass, that is probably just prejudice on my part. Not sure what to think on this one. It's 25/32nds. Thanks Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 I agree that equating "modern" with "poor glass" is probably not helpful. Some modern marbles have very good glass quality. The glass quality for some of the Jabos, DAS and SMMs is excellent, but they tend to command a premium price relative to marbles that are mass produced so they can be sold cheaply and still provide a reasonable return. Of course, the balance of expense, quality and sales numbers, is a calculation that most manufacturers work to optimize, regardless of their product. Collectability is an entirely different thing. It generally has to do with rarity, eye appeal and condition. The marble you posted above does look newer (maybe Jabo) and if you compare that white to the formula white batch-made glass in a good old marble, it doesn't even come close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Oregon Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Since Ric mentioned it, I'll post the Wales bag pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Thanks for the pics, Al. One thing is for sure, the intensity of the color on some of those old veneered Wales marbles is outstanding, like the red, blue and yellow in that first bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Good quality white base glass = Whole Milk. Lesser quality white base glass= 2% or 1% Milk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad G. Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Yes "Thank you Al" I looked last night, found them and I do have about 2 quart jars of them. As Ric was saying the reds and oranges on these pops out like a sore thumb, quite bright colors. Good to add a name to the face as always, and once learned hard to forget. Unless you have the occasional brain freeze attacks like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad G. Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 1 minute ago, wvrons said: Good quality white base glass = Whole Milk. Lesser quality white base glass= 2% or 1% Milk. Well put Ron, good analogy "Thanks" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted January 21, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Awesome. You all even answered questions I didn't even know I had..👍👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad G. Posted January 21, 2021 Report Share Posted January 21, 2021 Were havin fun now !!! Most excellent !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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