wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 The late Edwin Safreed. He worked at Ravenswood Novelty from the start until the last marble was made. He looked through the boarded up windows when Alley was making marbles at Ravenswood Glass in 1929. Which later became Ravenswood Novelty. The owners ask Safreed to come make marbles for them. He ran the machine, he hauled cullet in a Diamond Reo dump truck. He packaged marbles. He did the maintence repairs. He loaded RR boxcars, He did it all at Ravenswood Novelty. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 @wvrons You put on a pretty great show today, Ron! The toys are especially nice. What I find interesting is that the Paul Bunyan marbles appear in about the same mix in both the Alox and Ravenswood packaging - it seems like every bag has one of the blue on green marbles. I wonder if both companies got them from the same supplier (Master?) or if Alox might have gotten them from Ravenswood - I'm pretty sure they bought other marbles from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akroorka Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Ron--they are all nice--nuf said! Those Alox nets are the first that I have ever seen--do you figure that they are "Paul Bunyans" in them?? Nice stuff! Thanks for sharing these! Marble--On!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Tough question. We have paper work documentation that Alox bought marbles from Ravenswood. We also have paper work documentation that Alox bought one inch marbles from Master. Of course we know Alox packaged 7/8 or 7/8+ sparker type marbles from Master, But no paper work list the name Paul Bunyan. Nola has a theory that the name for the Paul Bunyan marbles came about from the Pauls Blue Ox- Paul Bunyan toy above. The toy maker needed 7/8 inch marbles and they contacted Ravenswood Novelty. I think the patent for the Pauls Blue Ox was 1931. Ravenswood Novelty then named the Paul Bunyan marbles and supplied them to the toy maker. Then also packaged them under the name Paul Bunyan marbles Ravenswood Novelty Works. For several years. Of course, Ric your Pauls Blue Ox has 7/8 inch Akro marbles. Were the Paul Bunyan marbles produced by Ravenswood Novelty Works or Akro or Master ? Still no actual proof of who produced them. Will we ever know ? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 The Alox bags have 100% for sure Paul Bunyan marbles in them. They came right out of the factory by Nancy Frier grandaughter of the original owner. T The last and only surviving Alox marble machine Third generation Alox run at Jabo on the original Alox machine. Which may have come from Ravenswood Novelty or L.E. Alley. Three generations with connections to this machine. Left is Frank Sellers- grandson of L.E. Alley Nancy Frier - granddaughter of John Frier Alox owner Charles Cox- son of last Ravenswood Novelty owner Paul Cox. Far right- Rae Weekly- Ravenswood Novelty. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 I am shocked by the $7.50 retail price cited in the article for a 30 count box (I'm assuming this is one of the green, red or blue boxes) - it seems way too high to me. The minimum wage the year Ravenswood closed (1955) was only 75 cents/hour! This seems like it has to be an error. Or maybe they're talking about a gross (144) of the 30 count boxes, which would make more sense - not very clearly written, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akroorka Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 47 minutes ago, wvrons said: Were the Paul Bunyan marbles produced by Ravenswood Novelty Works or Akro or Master ? I have often wondered about the real maker of the marbles found in the later Akro Boxes. The #300,#250 and the # 230. These boxes were crossovers from Akro to Master Glass as far as my research has found at least. Many of them held what are obviously Master Glass marbles and some had what I would consider as —newer stock Akro. The thing with me is the oxblood patch type that varies so much in color. The darker colored ox appears to be a more Master Glass type while the reddish or more refined appears to be Akro. Look into this further and perhaps you will find some answers. Marble—On!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 I've had these two for a long while and I've gone back and forth Akro/Master for years . . . lately, I am thinking they are more likely Master but based on past history, this could easily change again - lol. Either way, they sure look like Paul Bunyan marbles to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 I have never found any of the different Paul Bunyan marbles as Akro for sure. There are about six or seven different color combo Paul Bunyan marbles. A couple are hard to find. I have ask and showed with witnesses, Roger Hardy the Paul Bunyan marbles different times. He has never dug one. He has none in any original Akro package. He has no idea who produced them. None of the Paul Bunyan marbles have any oxblood. I think the Paul Bunyan marbles date back to early 1930's up until Ravenswood closed in 1955. The Paul Bunyan marbles are in mesh bags. Most of this dates them before Master. We know Master got most of the remaining Akro marbles and empty packages. Master put Master marbles in Akro packages. Master put Akro marbles in Master packages. George Sourlis did a lecture and slides about this at a Decatur show about 4-5 years ago. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, wvrons said: . . . Of course, Ric your Pauls Blue Ox has 7/8 inch Akro marbles. . . The 10 Akro oxblood patches that came with my Babe the Blue Ox toy are 15/16" to 1" and a few have AV in the green. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, wvrons said: I have never found any of the different Paul Bunyan marbles as Akro for sure. Maybe the reason nobody can seem to decide if they are Akro or Master and the reason they are not seen in either company's packaging is because the are Ravenswoods. lol But seriously, didn't one of the old Ravenswood employees claim that they were made at Ravenswood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akroorka Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 5 minutes ago, Ric said: The 10 Akro oxblood patches that came with my Babe the Blue Ox toy are 15/16" to 1" and a few have AV in the green. These are the ones that I was talking about--nice images Ric. Not Ravenswoods--imho. Akro or Master glass. I appreciate all opinions of course--just a pig-headed guy here. Marble--On!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 I have went back and fourth with these Paul Bunyan marbles for twenty five years as to who made them. You can find them with a paper note stapled to the bag. It states that these marbles were made by Akro and lay in dust covered bins until discovered. True or a sales pitch, because Akro marbles were always more money than Ravenswood. A original Ravenswood Novelty bag header. Why would Ravenswood put this note on a bag with their header and Paul Bunyans ? I have seen more of these Paul Bunyan bags without the paper note than with it. Plus the note is wrong for sure these factories did not cease operations in the late 1940's. Plus I think the Paul Bunyan marbles began before the mid 1940's. Most of the info on this note is false. Were these bags of Paul Bunyans sold at the auction after Ravenswood Novelty closed and a seller attached the note ? Just one piece of the puzzle. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, akroorka said: Not Ravenswoods--imho. Akro or Master glass. I was joking around, Art. Although I do think one of the Ravenswood employees was convinced they were made at Ravenswood (memories surely can falter though). Have you seen the ones I posted in Akro boxes? I am talking about these marbles, BTW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 I agree Rics marbles above are 100% made by Akro. They are not Pual Bunyan marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, wvrons said: I agree Rics marbles above are 100% made by Akro. They are not Pual Bunyan marbles. I got confused Ron, I thought Art was talking about the two light green ones I posted. Are you talking about those or the 10 oxbloods I posted? To me, the oxbloods are Akro for sure, but I am not sure about the two green based marbles I posted. Do you think those are Paul Bunyans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 A Ravenswood employee was interviewed by myself and Bill McCaleb. Her last name was Elie or Ely. She worked for Ravenswood Novelty before WWII and than again after the war. Her job was packaging marbles in bags and boxes. I showed her some Paul Bunyan marbles and ask her if Ravenswood produced these marbles. Her reply was that she had never ever seen those marbles before. I showed her the bag of Paul Bunyans Ravenswood Novelty header and the paper note attached to it. She said that as well as she knew that was not packaged at Ravenswood Novelty. The first three Paul Bunyan marbles I ever bought many years ago, were from a woman in Ravenswood. She said her brother or uncle made them at Ravenswood. She said that when he gave them to her(about 15-20)that the marbles were still warm. His name was Edwin Safreed. Fae Safreed the daughter of Edwin Safreed, told me and others that her Dad made the Paul Bunyan marbles at Ravenswood. I have the marbles which I bought from her Dads collection. Of course it had 5/8-11/16-3/4 inch Ravenswood marbles and 7/8 inch Paul Bunyan marbles. I met Fae at my first marble show, the first Sistersville WV marble show. She said her Dad made the Paul Bunyan marbles on weekends. But not in the marble factory. There was a pottery factory a couple hundred yards below the marble factory. It was Trenle Blake Pottery. I also collected it. It was restaurant pottery white and the usual green stripes. Fae said her Dad made the Paul Bunyan marbles at the pottery factory. There could have been a furnace there. Maybe a 7/8 or one inch marble machine, maybe they were all packaged in the pottery factory ? There was no extra room for a 7/8 marble machine in the Ravenswood marble factory. When Charles Cox was at the Alox third generation run at Jabo. I showed him and ask him if Ravenswood Novelty made these marbles. His reply was, yes we made those. His father Paul Cox owned Ravenswood Novelty after Charles Turnbull. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 The 10 oxbloods are Akro for sure. The two light green base are questionable Akro, Master or Paul Bunyans ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 22, 2023 Report Share Posted March 22, 2023 Did Akro buy the bags of Paul Bunyans from Ravenswood trying to get them of the market ? Due to competition, then never did anything with them. They look like Akro. In 1940 who else made 7/8 inch patches that look like these ? There are lots of these mesh and plastic bags floating around with the paper note attached. Less numbers of the mesh bags with the paper note attached. Then they were found later in the dust covered bins, who knows by who or when ?? But the Paul Bunyans look nothing like anything else Ravenswood ever produced. They never produced any patch marbles or 7/8 inch size unless it was Paul Bunyans ? I also found a local newspaper article interview 1992 with Edwin Safreed. In the article Edwin Safreed said they produced one inch marbles. Edwin Safreed passed away before I started with marbles. Good numbers of Paul Bunyan marbles were found by over a dozen people at the Ravenswood river bank dump. But no other 7/8 or one inch marbles at all. The Ravenswood marbles were all dumped over the river bank in 1986 after the factory had been closed for years. Today I think maybe somebody, someplace, for Ravenswood Novelty did make the Pual Bunyan marbles. The last five years I thought that Master made these. Fifteen years ago I thought that maybe Akro made them. But I have mostly now ruled out Akro. Tomorrow may change. Looking for any other answers or theories as always. The Paul Bunyan marbles mystery continues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 @wvrons Thanks for the clarification and for reminding me of the history, Ron. All of the poly bags with the Paul Bunyan Ravenswood labels and the paper "Akro" tag I have don't look like original packaging to me. The bags lack the typical double seam you'd expect, the header is narrower than the bag and the top of the bag is folded over before the header is attached - not like any original Ravenswood poly bags I know of. My thinking is that someone found the Paul Bunyan marbles "in a dusty bin" somewhere, and also found the mesh bags and Paul Bunyan Ravenswood headers, bought some new poly bags and put bags, tags and headers together themselves. The "Genuine Old Fashioned" mesh bag labels always seemed to me not to be authentic either. Why would Ravenswood label their marbles "Genuine Old Fashioned"? I mean, they may be old fashioned now but they weren't when Ravenswood made them, unless maybe they made them shortly before they closed and were reminiscing about the ones they made in the 1930s. I do think that the mesh bags of Paul Bunyans that lack the "Akro tag" are likely original, which would fit with the age of the toy, but I am not sure if Ravenswood ever packaged Paul Bunyan marbles in poly bags. Have you ever seen a Paul Bunyan Ravenswood label attached to an old-style double seam poly bag that is the width of the header? Who knows, maybe there's one in this box but I doubt I will ever find out. lol 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvrons Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 I agree that the plastic bags with Paul Bunyan marbles with the paper tag attached about Akro is a fantasy bag. I thought Ric or Al may also confirm it. No melted seam down the back of the bag. Yes the bag is folded over at the top, not like any other original Ravenwood plastic bag. The information on the paper tag is wrong on dates. These bags have age to the plastic, header and staples. But they could have been put together anytime after Ravenswood closed in 1955. So these bags could be 50-60 years old. If I look at all the things above, the list of things that might confirm that someone made the Paul Bunyan marbles at Ravenwood Novelty far out numbers anything that points to any other company producing the Paul Bunyan marbles. Ric 2-25-2011 and it has never been opened. Maybe it is full of rocks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 23, 2023 Report Share Posted March 23, 2023 31 minutes ago, wvrons said: . . . Ric 2-25-2011 and it has never been opened. Maybe it is full of rocks ? Nah, I shook it really hard and all I hear is glass. My bigger worry is that you put 50 Red Ravens in there. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 29, 2023 Report Share Posted March 29, 2023 A bit of AV to wake up this West Virginia Wednesday . . . Good Morning! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted March 29, 2023 Report Share Posted March 29, 2023 Some lucky guy got this one for his birthday . . . What was I thinking!? lol 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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