Handmade Help

[Fire1981]

There is an ID on this one right? 🔥

[Chad G.]

Gaps in between colors giving a window to the interior w/ no underlying "skin"  giving this one an I.D. as a "Josephs Coat" Nice one Fire     Onionskins are different in that they will have an underlying "skin" of usually white or yellow w/ bands of opaque color stretched over the skin leaving no gaps for views to the transparent interior of the marble. Some Coats do have an internal core as do some Onionskins. Many would consider this an " EOD Clown type Joseph Coat"  a HTF mib, nice score !!

[ann]

Basically I agree with Chad G. That said, The Joseph Coats that I have don`t have this kind of ribbon structure - instead, each color is a distinct ribbon with no blending or mixing. The ribbon structure of the OP is more like that of an Onionskin. I suppose you could look at it either way, depending on what definitions you use. In any case, it`s a very nice one!

[Chad G.]

OP is a EOD style Joseph Coat IMO,  EOD due to the colors terminating before going from pole to pole halfway more or less & the gaps between ribbons giving the internal base glass views indicates Joseph Coat. There is no underlying  White or Yellow "skin" so I don't see an Onionskin, there is no "skin". Yes still a very nice marble.

[Da Roberto]

Onionskin for me

[Alan]

Joseph's Coat for me.  The cane layout/marver pick-up is classic Joseph's Coat.  Any band stretching is incidental to the required necking-down process.  IMHO

[I'llhavethat1]

Left hand twist imho

[Jeff54]

For the mixing of small and long strand: onion. .End of day? (EOD?) IDK how or when that happened but when there's one pontal or something really special that seems like it was made as a one of a kind. Hot, sweaty, over-worked, tired, exhausted, starving and low paid glass worker, with family to feed, chunked leftovers together, after work period, to sell when company wasn't looking. EOD. 😛

[ann]

2 hours ago, Jeff54 said:

 Hot, sweaty, over-worked, tired, exhausted, starving and low paid glass worker, with family to feed, chunked leftovers together, after work period, to sell when company wasn't looking. EOD. 😛

I like that theory!

[Da Roberto]

"END OF DAY" I associate it more than anything else with the cloudy ones instead of onionskin, made with last pieces of the barrel or pieces of glass precisely at the end of the day, although in some books they attribute this definition to both

[Chad G.]

[ann]

For some reason, the end-of-day terminology has always bothered me. Partly because there are conflicting or obscure definitions of it, and partly because what do we know what the glassworkers were doing at the end of a long, hot, tiresome day? Sticking around to make another marble, or blowing out of the door to go home? How do we know what some call end-of-day are not just end-of-cane?

At any rate, I don`t think the term clarifies anything, so I personally don`t use it. Just my own decision, of course. All are free to also make their own decisions!

[Chad G.]

I always looked @ the type as having canes or colors terminating somewhere between the poles rather than running continually from pole to pole.  EOD style marbles are far less common than other production handmades. Just a collectors term in any case & probably will always be up for some type of dispute, all a matter of personal perspective.

[ann]

2 minutes ago, Chad G. said:

Just a collectors term in any case & probably will always be up for some type of dispute, all a matter of personal perspective.

 

 

Agree. And the title of that book really annoyed me! Of course, I bought it anyway . . .

[Da Roberto]

Yes, I own it too, nice photos, but as Ann says, this title / term I do not approve much .....

[Jeff54]

 

 

 

 

[Alan]

3 hours ago, ann said:

For some reason, the end-of-day terminology has always bothered me. Partly because there are conflicting or obscure definitions of it, and partly because what do we know what the glassworkers were doing at the end of a long, hot, tiresome day? Sticking around to make another marble, or blowing out of the door to go home? How do we know what some call end-of-day are not just end-of-cane?

At any rate, I don`t think the term clarifies anything, so I personally don`t use it. Just my own decision, of course. All are free to also make their own decisions!

It should bother you (as it does).   EOD has become another fanciful concept that attempts to dramatize the cane construction process in a completely untraceable, un-provable way with no provenance.  If one spends time as part of the cane construction process (or watches it closely over time), there are many things that can and do happen that are variables affecting the final outcome.  Then multiply that by variables in shop, artist, assistant, error, weather, pot/glory hole/glass temps, time constraints, how bored or tired the artists was etc etc etc. 

Cane construction and marble cut-off weren't rocket science and the tools of the day were (and are) quite simple.  Expect variances.  Lots of them.  Much like the much-ballyhooed "Left twist" as a 'rare' thing.  Its not as if there was a law that prevented right-handed people from twisting left.... or left-handed glass artists.

If one understands cane construction - why would an artist go through all the trouble to make a cane to make just one marble at the end of the day?   They could make ten times the marbles with ~10% more effort.   (select and then size and lay down the canes on a hot marver & measure with calipers, first gather, cold marver, 2nd gather, cold marver, 3rd gather, cold marver to start the cylinder, gather, begin torch-heating the canes (Joseph) or frit (onion), cup shape, measure, gather, marver to cylinder, caliper the gather, do the cane or Onion background pick up, heat carefully, marver, gather.  If an Onion, then heat layer #2 of the frit, do a pick-up, marver.  Then do a clear gather, marver.  If only one stage piece (simpler), then start the end neck-down process, cut off excess to water bucket and then round the cut-off point with the cherry wood cup.  Then begin necking down the single piece slowly, returning to the glory hole a few times to keep piece evenly heated, then complete necking down.  Cut off the piece to the cup or wet paper, finish the cut-off point with heat and cup, or store overnight to the annealing oven and wait until tomorrow and cold grind it.

Personally, I don't see hard working vintage glass workers in a sweltering glass shop with little ventilation going through that to make a single piece to amuse themselves.  It good to remember the era these were made in.

[ann]

[Chad G.]

Just another opinion on the Joseph Coat  "EOD"  & construction subject    

LINK ::  https://oldraremarbles.com/product-category/josephs-coat/?orderby=price-desc

[ann]

Weird. I certainly wouldn`t consider some of those one-color and two-color marbles Joseph Coats. That throws his whole paragraph into the "questionable"category for me

[ann]

9 hours ago, Chad G. said:

I always looked @ the type as having canes or colors terminating somewhere between the poles rather than running continually from pole to pole. 

These are the ones usually called end-of-cane. They are really hard to find. I only have two, I think, and some "drools" that were cut off sometime during the process . . .

[Fire1981]

WOW ! I truly think Lefties are extremely hard to find. I lucked out. This is one of two I have. My Sister is a left handed surgeon who operates from the right side of the table. Left handed marble makers work from the other side of the Glory Hole. 🔥

[Fire1981]

Alan I’m totally in. The factory was a factory. It wasn’t a chill out place to make marbles like a studio with one Glory Hole,ventilation and cold water….or beer🔥

[ann]

Beer being the operative word . . . .

[Fire1981]

This whole End of Day marble debate? Here’s a new one. What about a New Day marble? Fresh off the first cane 🔥