Hate to have to ask this

[Chad G.]

3 minutes ago, wvrons said:

What is the difference in design or construction with Pelter Cross Throughs and MK Cross Through Cat Eye's  ??   Why are Cross Through MK cat eyes and Cross Through Peltier are just cross throughs ?    

Hello Ron, 

    Wish I could help ya out w/ the name game but I barely keep up w/ it myself, I've head em called Crosthroughs for a bit now and wondered the same as you ??

[wvrons]

 The vast majority of MK cross through cat eyes the vanes or ribbons  are cut at the surface or touch the surface.  Vitro Eight finger cat eye marbles the ribbons all touch or near the surface, Fifty percent of Vitro Cage Cat Eye vanes of ribbons touch the surface.   

All swirl, style, type, design, marbles the color or colors twist or swirl.   Many cat ribbons or vanes ends are at the surface. 

[Fire1981]

If Pelt made 2 different types of Cats Eyes I’m all in. I just thought Pelt just made one type.🔥

[Jzoook6]

21 minutes ago, wvrons said:

 The vast majority of MK cross through cat eyes the vanes or ribbons  are cut at the surface or touch the surface.  Vitro Eight finger cat eye marbles the ribbons all touch or near the surface, Fifty percent of Vitro Cage Cat Eye vanes of ribbons touch the surface.   

All swirl, style, type, design, marbles the color or colors twist or swirl.   Many cat ribbons or vanes ends are at the surface. 

oooo thx for posting those beauties! that means these are definitely all catseyes, right? 

[wvrons]

I agree both MK and Peltier made cross through design marbles. Both very similar construction, some very similar color combinations.  But MK are always Cross Through Cat Eye and Peltier are always Cross Through.   Because the name cat eye attached to Peltier will lower the value. What is the lower or lowest value Pelt marbles, banana cat eye or game marbles. Collectors have been conditioned to think that a cross through is more valuable than a cat eye.   For many years and still a lot this way, collectors were taught to put cat eye marbles near the bottom of the list.  Some of that has changed the last ten years. People actually now hunt for cat eye marbles. The name cat eye is not so low any longer. So maybe now we can also call the Peltier Cross Through Cat Eyes.  Not many collectors any place the last 25 years wanted to label Peltier Cross Through as a cat eye.   For me always a cross through of any maker needed to have the colors cross through each other near the center of the marble towards the outside edge. Some colors made it to the outside edge and some did not. But the colors always crossed though the center of each other.  Making an x or an +, a Cross = cross through.      

[Fire1981]

The ribbons on these Pelts aren’t thin enough to be considered as veins which I attribute to a Cats Eye trait. 🔥

[wvrons]

Yes your marbles are Cat Eye style, design, type. Cat eye ribbons colors or vanes do not all have to float or be in the center. Many ribbons vanes or colors are only on the surface or come to the surface. Some are twisted and inside.  Cat eye is construction as to how the marble was made or produced. 

This is used in making 6 vane cat eyes.

 

 This is not needed or used in making swirl type, style, design marbles.    

 

Colors separation is important for cat eye marbles encased all around the colors with clear or transparent glass. Swirl colors are random and go around, in or out, twist in any direction. Color separation is not controlled much with swirls.  The two, cat eye or swirl are made totally different.    Cat eye marbles have the color flowing or pushed through a crucible, nozzel or  something to keep it separate from the base glass until the colors flow into the center or near the center of the glass stream as it exits the furnace.  

[wvrons]

I have never heard of any certain size requirement for any color in a cat eye or any other marble. Any color in a cat eye can be larger with larger holes in the crucible or what ever is used to add the colors near the center of the marble.  Maybe Peltier had larger holes in the crucible?  Earlier machine made marbles usually always had more and better colors. Maybe Peltier produced the first cross through cat eyes ?    Cat eye marbles were not mass produced until maybe the late 1940's. When were the Peltier cross through's in prooduction ?   

 I think we could cut a Peltier cross through and a MK cross through and measure the color thickness on 100 of each and I do not think there would be very little difference. 

[Steph]

12 hours ago, Jzoook6 said:

So what category would these fall under then? Swirl?

 

Your Peltiers are probably from the NLR era, early 1930's.  However, they could be from a little later and slide into the Rainbo era.   Either way they are a Rainbo style of some sort, not a swirl. 

Since they have the name of Cross Through, people use that and don't worry about the NLR or Rainbo origin quite as much.  


Yes, there are marbles which are called cat's eyes with similar patterns but from different makers.  But your Pelts predate the cat's eye era which began with cat's eye imports from Japan around 1950 give or take. 
 

[Jzoook6]

5 hours ago, Steph said:

 

Your Peltiers are probably from the NLR era, early 1930's.  However, they could be from a little later and slide into the Rainbo era.   Either way they are a Rainbo style of some sort, not a swirl. 

Since they have the name of Cross Through, people use that and don't worry about the NLR or Rainbo origin quite as much.  


Yes, there are marbles which are called cat's eyes with similar patterns but from different makers.  But your Pelts predate the cat's eye era which began with cat's eye imports from Japan around 1950 give or take. 
 

Thank you so much, Steph! Wow I had no idea that the cateye was more contemporary. 

[Gladys]

WHAT GREAT INFO!! Thank you Jzoook6 interesting!

[akroorka]

Just food for thought everyone. 
Every “cateye” that I have was marketed as a “cateye”. 
Perhaps the “injection” method of making marbles was pre—“cateye” marketing—ohh for sure it was.
Akro Sparklers meet the same standards cutoff wise as a “cateye” and I consider them to be in the “cateye” family at least (just the pinnacle or the leader—lol)---many Master Made marbles would meet this criteria as well.
Imho all “Cateyes” were marketed as “Cateyes” nuff said.
Good discussion!    
All opinions are welcomed and appreciated.
Marble—On!!
 

[Fire1981]

Oh heck yeah ! This thread is loaded with new info for me 🤛

[Fire1981]

🔥

[Jzoook6]

Yea seriously.🤯. Thank you all for such an insightful and educational ID sesh! 

[wvrons]

All Cat Eye's were marketed as Cat Eye's.  I also considered a Akro Sparkler as a Cat Eye. But I never seen any marketed as a Cat Eye.  I am not sure there was any "injection" method for making Cat Eye marbles. I am not sure what the injection method is for machine made marbles ?  Injection is using force to move something. I have never heard of or seen any pump or device that made pressure or forced hot glass flow, in making machine made marbles. I am always looking for more marble making info if someone has any. I will never live long enough to find or learn it all. 

[akroorka]

2 hours ago, wvrons said:

I am not sure there was any "injection" method for making Cat Eye marbles. I am not sure what the injection method is for machine made marbles ?  Injection is using force to move something. I have never heard of or seen any pump or device that made pressure or forced hot glass flow, in making machine made marbles. I am always looking for more marble making info if someone has any. I will never live long enough to find or learn it all. 

It is just older terminology Ron. I agree that it is wrong but it is much shorter than 
“a substance that is allowed to flow into the middle of another”.
Perhaps “Gravity Injected” will do😁.

I just know that I have seen blueprints with a device such as you show marked as "injection device", a crucible, nozzle or what ever it may be.

I wish that I would have saved them--not, or remembered where I saw them---well--that is a trick that I have lost touch with..

As always---
Marble—On!!