Jackson Blue Swirl

[Plutonianfire]

Please see attached photos showing blue swirl with color hue and swirl pattern very similar to Jackson blue swirl at the following url:

 https://marbleconnection.com/joemarbles/1Marble Picture Pages/11Jackson/Jackson 003/1 Jackson Large Pages/Jackson Marble Company 3-20.html

 

 

[akroorka]

I am not getting the connection with the images.

It is a WVS--no doubt, It could be from many makers imho.

Is there any glow under UV?

Marble--On!!

[Plutonianfire]

 

 

[Plutonianfire]

16 minutes ago, akroorka said:

 

“It is a WVS--no doubt, It could be from many makers imho”

I know that’s the “party line” but from my (admittedly naive) perspective I’m not sure that every West Virginia marble company made the exact same  shade of blue marbles with the exact same swirl patterns. If it’s possible to eliminate even one marble company it seems like you’re much closer to identifying the most likely manufacturers.  
 

I haven’t heard of any software that compares definitively known WV swirls with an unidentified marble to arrive at the most likely match based on seam style, size, primary color hue, swirl pattern, relative amounts of color (eg, coverage of blue vs white on the marble), etc. However, it should be possible … using Bayesian methods.

[Plutonianfire]

The collective amount of expert knowledge on this website is phenomenal.  I’m guessing that I’ve seen nearly a dozen different criteria used to facilitate identification if WV swirls … with the caveat that, even then, in many cases a WV swirl often still can’t be narrowed down to fewer than two or three companies.

[Plutonianfire]

50 minutes ago, akroorka said:

Is there any glow under UV?

 

Changes from Blue to Green

 

[Fire1981]

Pop goes the Heaton ????🍿🍿🍿🍿🔥

RAR

[cheese]

it's not Jackson for sure. The one you are comparing to has UV cream colored white that glows brightly, commonly used by Jackson. The one you have looks like the blue glows, which is uncommon for heaton. Otherwise the marble does look like Heaton. 

[akroorka]

3 hours ago, Plutonianfire said:

Bayesian

Ok--I had to look it up I will admit.

I like it----This is a great indication to the fact that you get it---we all do and always have.

Marble on and just do your best--that is all that any of us can do.

Great term--first time for me in marble collecting--keep them coming!!

I Love it--as I do all of this stuff!!

[Plutonianfire]

4 hours ago, cheese said:

it's not Jackson for sure. The one you are comparing to has UV cream colored white that glows brightly, commonly used by Jackson. The one you have looks like the blue glows, which is uncommon for heaton. Otherwise the marble does look like Heaton. 

I really think the Heaton UV issue is related to the type of UV light used.

Strikingly at least two of my Heatons PHOSPHORESCE at 395 nm with run of the mill UV blacklight without visible light filter and FLUORESCE at standard 365 nm long wave UV with visible light filter

 

The blue swirl at 395 nm (phosphoresces over about 1 to 2 seconds)

 

 

The blue swirl at 365 nm long wave UV. Fluorescence.

 

The blue swirl in visible light

 

[cheese]

The more you learn about how marbles were made, the connections they had with each other, and the glass used, you'll see why such a "program" would be problematic. Parameters would be very hard to set. For example, Alox used a ravwnswood machine, Kokomo used a peltier machine, Vitro used all sorts of machines from other places (I don't mean to imply that the machine imparts a quality to the pattern, it doesn't, just showing how things were shared commonly amongst companies). Then patterns changed and tank setups changed, years went by, modifications were made, etc... Then the glass... the glass in marbles from the 40s and after largely included cullet/scrap glass that consisted of vitrolite pane glass. It was used by every swirl maker except maybe CAC. The same glass. Coke bottles. Wissmach stained window glass scrap. Companies would buy car taillights from junked cars for the red. The glass going into a run of a certain color could start out with pond's cold cream jars and end with fenton scrap. The marbles in between would have varied amounts of both. During the run the brake light red might start running out so they throw cobalt blue in and varied amounts of each begin to come out. Then you had makers like Alley who produced lots of marbles at mainly 3 locations. The equipment and setup changed as they moved and the marbles from St. Mary's could look vastly different from their marbles from Sistersville. Then you have the employees, like the Master Marble company was started by former employees of the Akro factory. So they knew the glass recipes and how to make marbles the way they learned how at Akro. Alley made his first marble at Ravenswood, so his first marbles and many after look much like Ravenswoods, because that's what he learned to do. A.I. is pretty capable now, and maybe using the latest tech that is available, some good results could be had. But with the ability we have access to in the way of a phone app, I don't think it's possible (yet). I could be wrong but there are too too many variables IMO. This is why "marbles" is hard and takes years to learn and then we still sometimes only have a best guess.

[cheese]

I plan to check out my black light and see what wavelength it is, if it's advertised. I know my fluorescent one causes a much more vibrant reflection than the LED one I use does. No idea how to even tell what the fluorescent one is unless they print it on the bulb.

[Chad G.]

3 hours ago, cheese said:

I plan to check out my black light and see what wavelength it is, if it's advertised. I know my fluorescent one causes a much more vibrant reflection than the LED one I use does. No idea how to even tell what the fluorescent one is unless they print it on the bulb.

Agreed, I have a backlight tube that causes twice the fluorescence as LED, some don't even react to the LED as in the case of my sulphides. Under the tube they all fluoresce green only one or 2 fluoresce at all under the LED. I use my tube whenever possible. I'll have a look @ my tube as well as my LED flashlight and see what they say.

[Plutonianfire]

With the $10 UV lights you may not be able to find specifications.  However, the $35 UV flashlight that I have shows the wavelength on the casing. I primarily use it for collecting fluorescent rocks. Please see photos below.

 

[Ric]

6 hours ago, cheese said:

I know my fluorescent one causes a much more vibrant reflection than the LED one I use does . . .

This could be related to the intensity (amount) of light being emitted from the different sources and not necessarily the wavelength.

[Nantucketdink]

some Jackson blues for comparison