Steph Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Why did Ohio and West Virginia become centers for marble making? Any particular reason(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delkins Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Hey Steph. I'd have to look up any particulars, but I think an abundance of the type of sand which facilitates good glass making(a ton of glass companies hailed from WV), as well as cheap natural gas supplies. I know gas is the reason Akro moved from Akron to Clarksburg. The gas was much more available there and so less expensive. -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 1, 2007 Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 Abundant and cheap silica and natural gas deposits. Just the raw materials needed to make marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2007 silica = sand? Did the old marble companies process their own sand/silica? I understand that natural gas is not so easy to come by anymore. Is the sand/silica dried up too? (no pun intended!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delkins Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Here's a neat link: http://www.wvgs.wvnet.edu/www/geology/geoldvss.htm I believe that the early marble makers and glass manufacturers made all of their own glass in house. I don't know when the idea of recycling glass came into being. Or when other companies started buying other company's cullet. I figure everything was pretty secretive in the early, competitive days. It's my speculation that it was high caliber chemists such as Arnold Fielder, which gave both Akro and CAC(for which he also apparently worked) their high quality glass and vivid colors. JMHO. -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Yes, neat link. Thanks Dave and Alan for all the great info. I figured/hoped sand had something to do with it. Now you've crystalized it for me! I like the idea of in-house control of the colors and quality in the good old days. Fwiw, I'd heard the name Oriskany before (mentioned at your link, Dave). The (maybe) funny thing is that I read it today on an image I'd saved to my harddrive a few weeks ago. That image is what prompted my question. I wanted to know more about the significance of the jar of sand in a Marble Bert auction which had no takers. I would have bought it if I had any mad money, because having a jar of sand seemd like a cool idea to me! But I didn't, and apparently no one else got the historical significance of it, or valued it that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffsmarbles Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 It tells about this whole process in several of the marble books that are out there (to read), and the ifs, ands, and buts, and why the different companies eventually went out of business. In other words - Read The Books. :closedeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akronmarbles Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 The industry started in Ohio because the machinery and methods were invented by Ohio residents - basically in Akron. Akro Agate didn't move to West Virginia for cheap natural gas ans silica sand - they moved out of Akron because their business was completely stolen from M.F. Christensen and they wouldn't dare open their competing shop in the same town -they went to Clarksburg for secrecy. There is volumes of evidence to prove this out. Granted - glass industries did thrive in West Virginia and the Ohio valley due to gas and silica sands - silica sand being the major constituent of glass cost alot of money to transport - so historically, glass houses were located in close proximity to these sources - sometimes within amile of a quarry or deposit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 The industry started in Ohio because the machinery and methods were invented by Ohio residents ... I wondered if that was at least a part of it too. So it could have been a "Which came first, the glass or the glassmakers?" question. I was still fuzzy enough about the whole thing that I thought it safest to simply ask "Why?" and see what came of that. It's been interesting so far. I went back to read some in Baumann. He doesn't state Akro's reason for the move as bluntly as that, but yeah, that Horace Hill was some piece of work. That's irony. M. F. Christensen had to close down because of gas shortages but the dubious characters at Akro landed on their feet at a site rich in resources and were able to thrive. Martin Christensen (and son) really treated people right. Thanks for the reminders to look at their story again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delkins Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Sorry about that. Hey Brian, umm...I'll just come out and say it: I think you guys should reprint your book. I bet a lot of people, myself included, would love to read it. I would imagine you could take advanced sales. I mean its none of my business, I just thought I'd get it off my chest. -Dave P.S. Of course, I obviously no nothing about publishing. It would be cool, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 It tells about this whole process in several of the marble books that are out there (to read), and the ifs, ands, and buts, and why the different companies eventually went out of business.In other words - Read The Books. :closedeyes: Cliff, I "read the books". the ones I have. But sometimes things don't click until I've formulated a question to ask. Maybe a question about the books, maybe about something which accidentally leads me back to them. I have to feel involved. I try to read the text but I drift off and look at the pictures unless I have an active topic of interest to pursue. Like this has become. Actually this particular topic has been great for helping me get back into Baumann's book. Not having registered the connection between MFC and Akro before, I couldn't understand why MFC and Akro were in one chapter with CAC and Pelt off in a separate chapter. That didn't fit with how I grouped their marbles in my own mind so confusion kept me from really focussing on either chapter. Pretty much all of the confusion has been removed by the comments here, and I'm getting a lot out of my Baumann reading today. I'm almost done with the MFC/Akro chapter and am about to start into the CAC/Peltier chapter. I'll probably be back with more questions soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Well, I'm back. That's pretty funny how Akro sued Peltier for patent infringement because of the similarity of the Miller machine to Horace Hill's patent, and won, but then had their victory yanked on appeal because Horace Hill shouldn't have been awarded the patent to begin with. Yea! (Hey, I like Akros, but still yea!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 Hey Brian, umm...I'll just come out and say it:I think you guys should reprint your book. Dave, which book is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delkins Posted October 2, 2007 Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 M.F. Christensen and the Perfect Glass Ball Machine -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2007 I didn't know Brian was in on that. I do see his site cited several places in Baumann. Pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kokoken Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 The silica sand quarry in Ottawa, Il ( the one Peltier used ) is still very active. I have heard it is the largest one in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 Neat. Baumann said it was "the richest vein of silica sand in the United States", "99.9 percent pure silica". Wonder where it is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo217 Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I hope this isn't a stupid question, the answer for which can easily be found in a book... what's makes the different colors in the silica? is it dyed? We saw a jar of orange sand/silica? at the Akro Museum last weekend...with other "debris" in it. I've been wondering ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 I hope this isn't a stupid question, the answer for which can easily be found in a book...what's makes the different colors in the silica? is it dyed? We saw a jar of orange sand/silica? at the Akro Museum last weekend...with other "debris" in it. I've been wondering ever since. The colors in glass are imparted by glass colorants. Here are a few and their respective colors via glassalchemyarts: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 It tells about this whole process in several of the marble books that are out there (to read), and the ifs, ands, and buts, and why the different companies eventually went out of business.In other words - Read The Books. If we all had the time to read the books and the money and ability to have all the books, I guess we wouldn't need a chat board...... Personally, I have a ton of the books. But, my time really doesn't allow for sitting and casually reading. I really enjoy these posts because they bring this stuff to the Internet and allow conversation about it. There have been a lot of posts about very silly things on the boards... And, that's fun!! I'd just as soon scrap "The Lounge" and have it all here. It's a good break from the "serious marble talk." (It sure worked OK for us back before we had to use "Specific Categories" to speak in!!) But, when a good technical question comes up, to say "In other words - Read the Books" kinda sounds like it's something we don't want to talk about....... Uh............ So, if we can't talk "off topic" and we can't discuss what's "printed in a book" what the heck are we gonna talk about??? Current events, auctions and sales strickly in the marble world, get a bit weary after a while..... I'd really like everyone to feel like they can discuss whatever they want here, without any worry of being bitch slapped for it. :glare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn691500 Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Ive seen the sand pits of ottawa and back when i was hauling tankers i actually hauled some silica sand from that pit, it is a huge pit and the quality of sand is like no other,, they use alot of that sand now days to go into specialized cement such as colored grout, it is a top quality sand,, ya,,,bj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Neat! The ottawa people are apparently mighty proud of that sand too. Here's a link mostly about Ottawa silica sand. And a little about silica sand from some other sites in Illinois and out. It seems to be saying that pure silica will be colorless. It also tells some other modern uses for silica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Every now and then I have a good idea. My google search for Ottawa sand came up with contact info for the U.S. Silica company. I asked them why a silica/sand sample might be orange. (Didn't mention that it came from the Akro Museum, just said I was talking about it with some marble collectors.) Mr. Weber in the sales department responded most promptly. Stephanie, The orange sand more than likely is a result some dyeing, but silica sand can have an orange appearance because of a high iron content. Most silica sand is naturally white, beige, brown or tan in color. Sand can be colored for craft application or for industrial applications such as synthetic turf (green putting greens) Thanks, Wayne J. Weber U.S. Silica Company Sales Coordinator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo217 Posted October 4, 2007 Report Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks, Steph...good detective work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinemades Posted October 5, 2007 Report Share Posted October 5, 2007 No wander there is no match to old Peltier glass. Sami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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