Steph

p.s. i would also lean modern and foreign on the middle pic but I don't want to guess which continent it is from. I've lost track of which "cage-like" ones came from which area.

The 3-vane 3-color cats are definitely from after the 1950's. Cat's eyes first became the rage sometime around the early 1950's. The first ones as far as I know had 4 vanes, with 1 color. I'm not sure when the 3-vane 3-color ones came around, and especially unsure when peewees would have come on the scene. My guess would be 1970's or later for the 3-vane peewees. Cat's eye collectors pretty much have to have a different standard for what is "old" since the oldest cats are still relatively new.

Lou took the board over from Alan. many years ago. (if I understand correctly)

Okie dokie. Now we're getting somewhere. Then I'll have to vote no on the Veteran Conqueror. Here's the version I'm reading of Alan's description of Veteran Conquerors: So the 'veteran conqueror' is not a phantom conqueror type. The 'white' is still brushed, not filamented. But the white isn't purely white. Also note where he says the type "has not been named but could be labeled ...". He's making a suggestion. I asked on the board about this name once and was given the impression that it never caught on. I don't know if Alan himself still uses it.

I looked up an old copy of Alan's page and didn't find "Victory Conqueror". Are you thinking of the "Veteran Conqueror" name which he proposed for an off-white Conqueror variant?

I am not familiar with the name "Victory Conqueror". I know what a Victory is, but that's a different marble. The "plain" Victory is the one with a single patch and a transparent interior.

I have not seen that book yet. I had read the bad press and decided to pass. But in the last year I've heard more than one person refer to it so I might have to get it after all. :-)

I'd like to know more about those. I'd guess Pelt myself. I find myself wishing we had more close-up pix of the late 1930's mesh bags, such as the Rippled Wheat bags. That's my best guess at the mo' for the packaging they could be in. I'm really just brainstorming but that is where some other rainbo glass pelt patches are found. I do have a glowing based bubbly white ribbon rainbo. Might be a relative. The base is slightly green tinted on mine. I can't tell if yours is tinted or not. Mine is noticeably tinted. I'm open to hearing more about the Vitro option, but right now I'm still leaning pelt.

Not my box! I wish! The pix came from a Marblealan auction. Sorry I didn't mention that. Someone else has it which is why I couldn't pick those mibs up and examine them closer to see if this one has wisps or turn this one over to see if it has more clear on the other side. One more friendly chuckle at the thought of those maybe not being considered popeyes and now I'll clear out of this topic. ttyl :-)

I don't imagine Bill really thinks these would be backfilled. Not all of them. But Bill, in case you do, of course they weren't. Some popeye boxes, sure, but not all. Some had swirly/corky moss agates. Some had tri-onyx agates. LOL. Speaking of which, I guess I should rephrase my opinion: A Popeye is a marble from a tri-onyx agate run. (imho ;-) Bill, I do think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater in your study of boxes and ads. Sure there are times to be careful, but we do have reason to believe certain things. And no we can't lay everything we know into any one thread. If you need to ferret it it out for yourself and not take our word, that's cool with me. I'm not going to keep arguing. I've stated my case. Can't do any more. I trust that neither of us is mad right now, and I want to keep it that way. Back to the topic - I do think it's amusing that people wouldn't necessarily consider just any marble from a tri-onyx run a popeye. but hey, it is a collector's name. Funnier things have happened.

Ditto what Alan said. Also, I trust you mean glass. Washing clay mibs could cause color loss.

p.s. But #1 comes closest. I don't care whether this mib shows any wispy white upon closer inspection. I don't care whether this one has any appreciable clear. If it came from a popeye run, I think it's a popeye! (lol)

Hi Pete. Welcome! The more Vitros the merrier!

Craig, what date are you estimating on the last ad you showed? Did I read it correctly that you're putting it before the 1933 ad? I'd have been tempted to put it 1935, 1936 or maybe even later. One confusing thing for me has been trying to figure out how long Akro was advertising the Carnelians as "new". One of the years they called them new was 1934, but I don't know long that went on or when they actually started! LOLOL

Can't vote. My answer isn't up there.

If you think that patches have "exquisite patterns" then we're not going to come to a meeting of the minds on this. One thing I've learned from seeing more and more Akro ads is not to be too sure about anything. After you said my concept was killed, Craig posted the Popeye box ad with the moss agates in it. If you want to make the most progress with Akro ads you have to get your head around the idea that the people writing the ads recycled old text and pix, and probably often did not notice or care that some of the stuff was out of date. AND the people who wrote the ads weren't the people who made the marbles. Their terminology and perceptions might not match up for that reason. In Craig's first ad above, the adwriters had an old description of Moss Agates. They pasted it onto the layout. They didn't doublecheck it and modify the old moss agate description when they worked on the rest of the flyer. [Note: all 3 pages are part of the same flyer.] To get the most out of the ads you gotta have checks and balances between what you see in your hand and what is there on the paper. Context matters. You're certainly free to have different perceptions and interpretations than I. I'm just gonna repeat this as I duck out - if you think patches have "exquisite patterns" then we see things very differently.

One inch slag (unless it's a cornelian ) I haven't seen anything larger than 1" in ads, as far as I can recall. The rest of the book: All About Marbles: A Little Book for Boys

Yah, that green looks different from Ace green. (to me) [edit: Aw heck, I'm stepping out of my depth. I admit I haven't see enough of these to have that good of a feel for how the light should react. I'll leave my original post below, but feel free to disregard.] Galen, can you get a sense of where the opalescence seems to emanate from? Is it the milky area? The wispy area? Or maybe the interplay of the two? If I ever got to see the original swirly moss packaging in person I would want to check out how the light played in the glass. I've long wondered whether it was the grain itself in the Realer and the striation itself in the Aces, which caused the opalescence. It has seemed to me that the fire in the least wispy Realers is concentrated in the few wispy areas. Also, I've had some non-Akro game mibs with great fire which I also thought came from some filamentation. But I don't yet know how to confirm. I think I need a physics major or a glass maker here to consult with. :-)

Could a fracture be responsible for what you're seeing?

Moving this from the Ace vs. Moss Agate thread since my post was not close enough to the topic of that thread. Basically I just wanted to single out this box. I find it very interesting. It has some marbles in it which I'm not sure about. One almost looks like a Vitro fingers mib to me but more than 8 fingers. (at the top, just left of center) Eneeway. Neat snapshot. Per the ad, this is "4 No. 2 Moss Agate Shooters, 10 No. 1 Prize Name Agates, and 24 ring-size mibs in a variety of kinds and colors". (click for larger version): LOL. Now that I'm looking at it again, it's not something I have a pressing interest in! LOL. It totally wasn't worth sidetracking that other thread with. But if anyone does want to comment . . .

And now for something completely different! I looked up some 1930-ish pieces about the comics, and the comics themselves. Here's a 1933 article I wanted to link somewhere. Here is good enough: How Comic Cartoons Make Fortunes I like this 1931 YouTube clip even more though: Classic Chicago Tribute Cartoonists p.s. Didja know that Herbie was Smitty's brother? And Kayo was Moon Mullins' brother? And Emma was Moon's landlady. Ko Ko, Bimbo and Betty all have the same creator, Max Fleischer. Bimbo might've introduced Betty. Betty introduced Popeye, well, the film version of Popeye , , , but Popeye would take me off topic. LOL. Wouldn't want to do that.

p.s. check out the bottom gift box. ... edit: moving my way off topic comment. lol

That's some nice detail. It should spawn a lot of discussion, maybe for years to come. lol Moss Agates are mentioned/shown on all three pages, but with seeming contradictions. Like where the swirly moss description is on the same page as a picture of a box of moss patches. It's an example of one of their patchwork ads. It has a mixture of old and new elements. And some errors, possibly partly due to the disconnect between the people writing the ad and the people who knew the inventory best. But it is still a fabulous source of info if you're patient enough to iron out the wrinkles. LOL.

Those ringers are beauts! I don't see popeye-lites though. I see MORE. I see translucent glass in addition to the clear and wispy white. When people in the past have posted mibs and asked "is this a ringer?", I've said "no" because I saw the translucent glass. Now I think the translucent glass belongs. Gorgeous examples, Craig. Thanks for sharing.

The Ringer is a collectors' name, not an Akro name. It is supposedly based on what has been found in Ringer Marble Set boxes. My mention of it today was a platform to discuss what is actually found in those boxes. I don't use the term Snake. It is not an Akro name as far as I know. The term Onyx is an Akro name, and I use it appropriately, as far as I know. I give up talking about the clear glass. I don't agree with what you think would "follow". Sorry you don't think I'm being consistent enough. I've already admitted to picking and choosing what to take with me from different descriptions. However, I happen to believe I choose intelligently, taking a large body of information into consideration. Some people have more information than I do but I have a lot. I have no reason to doubt that the swirly moss agate box is filled correctly. I would have to throw out a lot of evidence if I restricted conclusions about swirly/corky moss agates to what I see in a patch box. Akro's ad writers were not looking at plain patches when they described Moss Agates as "... the most beautiful marble Akro Agate has ever produced. Highest quality moonstone glass, soft pastel colors contrasted with more vivid hues in exquisite patterns - pale green with maroon, cream with deep blue, etc. ..." No hard feelings. I just believe it would be walking backward to toss out the information that box gives us.