spara50 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Just a heads up, this is a fake. I know, I own one myself and overpaid for it. Found out later that Hansel had them made in Germany. ebay auction Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 can't get the link to work craig ... but .. wonder " why" these were done .. and put out for sale ????? without proper labeling that they were .. contemp's ??? bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Chamberlain Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hi Craig, I can't seem to connect either. Definitely would like to know the full story behind these sulphides. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feelnmarbleous Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Not sure what mib you found on eBay but i can't find any colored Sulphides... I know SP did some coloring of some Sulphides a while back, not sure when or what ones, but i do recall him saying they was green and blue, and he was pretty tickled knowing he did some Repro's that was going to be passed off as real ones going for big bucks, but that's what he likes, knowing he's ripping some one off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn691500 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 260453625389 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 ebay auction Wow. $6100. Very interesting to hear the background. Thanks Craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Chamberlain Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I believe Hansel should be advised of this sale if this is one of the marbles that he had made in Germany. If I had his email I would contact him right now. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 when i first saw the marble, i thought it had been touched up. looked to " clean" to me. and wait till the buyer gets wind of it's background. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTAndrea Posted August 7, 2009 Report Share Posted August 7, 2009 Hansel who? Not the collector, surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spara50 Posted August 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Hansel de Sousa. I purchased one of these from Germany for big $$$ myself. It was displayed in Kansas City in my room at the marble show last March. He sat next to me and personally told me the story. He had them commissioned by a marble maker in Germany. They come in green and amber glass. I don't know what the other figures are that were made. After they were finished he backed out of the deal with the maker because he didn't want to pay $30 each for them. Now they are being sold as vintage. I am sure Hansel is following these threads and is more than welcome to chime in with more info. My point is, if you do these things, at least let the collecting world know about it so we won't be ripped off. David, he doesn't give a sh@t. If he did, he would have come forward along time ago. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 8, 2009 Report Share Posted August 8, 2009 Hansel was not following the threads until I gave him a heads up yesterday. He asked me to post the rest of the story. Here is his note (with me clarifying one pronoun). Thanks. I told him [Craig] these particular sulphides were made by Norbert Geitner of Lauscha at my request, to prove that miniature coin sulphides, which, at the time, another German ebayer was then selling as antique, were indeed new. Other than the coins, Norbert had his choice of size, design and color. At the time I had several of these new sulphides listed on eBay as new, and Norbert listed some himself, also as new. They sold for less than my costs, so I quit buying them. There was no agreement to buy any particular number of marbles from Norbert; neither did he have any constraints as to where or to whom he could sell them. He was not the first nor the last to make modern sulphides in Germany, and I was not his last customer. Of note, that green eagle sulphide recently sold on eBay was not listed as being old; I wonder if Craig's was. One can't deny it's better to have repros sold as such; unfortunately it may be impossible to educate collectors who have more $$$ than sense, me included. Hansel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I am not sure but I believe that Hansel did the same with marble medals. He commissioned Scott Patrick to do the job. A couple ways to tell the difference is that silver medals are marked silver. Old vintage medals were not made of silver. The detail of the repro medals will not be as crisp as the originals. Nothing was said about these either except that when they started showing on the bay, Scott chimed in and said he had made them. The same question then applies to now. Why wasnt the marble community warned? Easy because of the the money the will bring being sold as old. clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 If Hansel sold reproduction items as new then where's the easy money? And if he sold them as new, then wasn't that "warning" the marble community? The community may have forgotten, and newbies like me have come along who simply don't yet know enough to suspect that there are repros. But we all learn at some point that there are things we don't know and we need to learn how to tell the new from the old. I admit to bias here because I've always found Hansel generous with information. Still it seems to me the issue isn't about greed. To me it seems closer to the debate over whether contemporary handmade marbles should be signed by the maker. Sorry if I'm missing out on something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Chamberlain Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Wow! What I find amazing Clyde is that after being duped by Scott Patrick's, DPS mid-1990s Leighton's w/oxblood that Hansel would have anything to do with him that smacked of reproductions. When you deal with the Devil.....David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I am not sure but I believe that Hansel did the same with marble medals. He commissioned Scott Patrick to do the job. A couple ways to tell the difference is that silver medals are marked silver. Old vintage medals were not made of silver. The detail of the repro medals will not be as crisp as the originals. Nothing was said about these either except that when they started showing on the bay, Scott chimed in and said he had made them. The same question then applies to now. Why wasnt the marble community warned? Easy because of the the money the will bring being sold as old. clyde Wow, if that is true its really hard to believe. My guess is he had them made, gave them to friends as gifts and those people ended up selling them and thats how they got on ebay etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Sorry, if I was implying that Hansel was bad. I was not. He wasnt doing the the selling. As in this case he had them commissioned. It's the same if you have someone copy a painting, bronze statue etc. The fault isnt the person that has them made. The fault lies with the after market. The medals were marked as being silver. No marble medals are silver. This should have been the warning flag. Coins are the only thing I know where the government has stepped and says any coin not original must be stamped copy. In all collectibles you MUST learn what is out there and what is original. I also dont think there is anyone out that hasnt been burned at least once. It is a learning curve. Knowledge is the key and the power you learn to make the hobby enjoyable. Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david Chamberlain Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Exactly Clyde! I hope that my previous Post didn't imply that I was accusing Hansel of anything nefarious; I only expressed amazement that he would have any dealings with Scott Patrick, DPS at all. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popculturizm Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 wow this is an amazing story - (glad I don't collect sulfides) but 6100.00 for a marble, isn't that theft by deception and/or grand theft larceny or something, to bad eBay no longer regulates itself on these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 haha, i didnt notice the price. $6,100.00 WTF is wrong w/ people. Do you realize what 6100 would buy you at a marble show.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spara50 Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 All I can say is there sure are alot of naive people in this world. Here is another from the same group of Hansels. eBay item no. 120457398946 The coin and the eagle come in green, amber and clear and in various sizes. Not sure of any other figures. I would be interested in knowing what he was trying to disprove with the fake marble medals. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popculturizm Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 yeah maybe naive but 6100.00 put's them into the really rich & stupid range "spending their inheritance one marble at a time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinemades Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Craig, out of curiousity; does your fake Sulphide have a pontil? Is it ground if there is one? Sami Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Re. reproduction sulphides, see Baumann's Collecting Antique Marbles. (pp. 139-41 in 4th ed., p. 88 in 3rd ed.) Re. reproduction tournament medals, see Antique & Collectors Reproduction News, Vol. 9, #2, Feb 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marblemover Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 so steph, can you provide a quote from those references, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Baumann says "bright greens and yellows" in reference to reproductions which have been appearing since the 1960s but he might not be talking about the glass. Maybe the figure itself. So nevermind. Still an interesting section. Discusses California sulphides at length. Just maybe not very applicable to this thread. The ACRN article is three pages illustrated with many photos, showing differences between original die struck medals and the repros which were cast in molds, the molds being made from the originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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