LouisCamp Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Okay. While Steph may be correct going by the dictionary, Bo is correct that a pontil is what is left when you break a punty off. Haha, that just cleared that up! Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popculturizm Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 I think the main point is that some guy on eBay is passing off "newer" sulphides as rare old ones, which is theft by deception as well as grand theft larceny (at 6100.00) along with some kind of wire/mail fraud. I just wish eBay gave a damn as much as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisCamp Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Ohh, sorry forgot the main point. Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spara50 Posted August 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Wow...another thread hijacked...what are the odds. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Wow...another thread hijacked...what are the odds. Craig totally with you on this craig. the light started shining on an untouchable, and nobody wants to follow up on why these were commisioned in the first place. and why .. nobody .. was alerted to this. whatever happened to folks alerting others to a situation .. before they spend big bucks .. on new glass .. skunks abound .. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 totally with you on this craig. the light started shining on an untouchable, and nobody wants to follow up on why these were commisioned in the first place. and why .. nobody .. was alerted to this. whatever happened to folks alerting others to a situation .. before they spend big bucks .. on new glass .. skunks abound .. bill At various times I was defending the "untouchable" and then the seller of one of the sulphides. (edit: er, at least I guess you mean Hansel, who is apparently touchable. or did you mean the topic of making new marbles?) If the goal of this thread was to inform people of marbles which might be mistaken for antique, fine. If the goal was to criticize some particular someone for being one of many to have new marbles made in the 20th or 21st century, then it is justifiable for someone to defend him. Should no one be allowed to make new marbles because they confuse people who are collecting old ones? I happen to have a problem with reasoning along those lines. Forgeries are going to be made, they're not going to be signed, and we are responsible for educating ourselves about them. New marbles commissioned in an aboveboard manner, and sold as new by both the person who commissioned them and by the person who made them, that's not forgery. Craig got burned. It wasn't Hansel's fault. Thank you much Craig, for bringing these to our attention. That sort of thing needs to be done periodically to educate new generations of collector. It's been an interesting thread. I didn't know much about the modern sulphides. But I wasn't in the market for sulphides either. If I had been I would likely have consulted someone, e.g., Sue or Hansel, before investing, so maybe I would have learned about these then. Good to have the information on record for those without ready access to such collectors. We'll need more reminders later, of course. But thanks for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 my point was and is .. a comment about this from the people involved .. not supporting comments ... would settle alot of what has been said here. getting somebody to speak for you don't stop speculation. stepping up would. stones aren't being thrown here, but being aware that these were out there, and who was involved, would, if nothing else, saved a couple of people some bucks. alot of bucks ... i gave that bird a look also. educate urselves is the first rule .. but a heads-up would be nice also. done on this. bill .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m!b$ Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 jerk (jurk) v. 5. Slang. A dull, stupid, or fatuous person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 my point was and is .. a comment about this from the people involved .. not supporting comments ... would settle alot of what has been said here. getting somebody to speak for you don't stop speculation. stepping up would. stones aren't being thrown here, but being aware that these were out there, and who was involved, would, if nothing else, saved a couple of people some bucks. alot of bucks ... i gave that bird a look also. educate urselves is the first rule .. but a heads-up would be nice also. done on this. bill .... Bill, What makes you think my announcing in this forum that an eBay sulphide is new, would have prevented the high bidders from bidding? When this batch of sulphides was made, some 4 to 5 years ago, I had several sold on eBay as new. That's about the biggest audience of marble collectors I know of. The colored glass eagle sulphides were amongst them, but not commissioned by me. What I had done, was to ask a friendly marble maker in Lauscha to obtain some miniature coin sulphides for me, which at the time were being sold on eBay as antique, and for big bucks. My friend did know the maker, who apparently was unwilling to sell them directly to me. So my friend made me a few, including some of his own design (the eagle amongst them), all of which were sold on eBay as new, and at a loss. A continual heads up would be nice, but how should it be done? Here on the boards for an elite few? Who should have warned the high bidder of the $20 cork that just sold for $260 on eBay? Who should have warned the grandmother I saw pay $25 at a local flea-market this weekend for a 1/2 pint of ordinary Jabos? Or the collector who invested some $100,000.00 in Christensen exotics and was turned down years ago by Danny Turner of (the old) Running Rabbit when he wanted them resold? Did the people (which includes me) who spent tens of thousands on California sulphides ever consult the article in Antique & Collectors Reproduction News (June 1994)? Ever hear of the collector who killed himself some some 10 years ago when he found out he wasted a fortune on John Deere marbles? Most of us have been burned; some worse than others. Sure, we'd all like to be educated, but contrary to what they may have taught you from kindergarten on, you'd better learn to do it yourself - no one is going to continually spoon-feed you. Hansel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 Bill, What makes you think my announcing in this forum that an eBay sulphide is new, would have prevented the high bidders from bidding? When this batch of sulphides was made, some 4 to 5 years ago, I had several sold on eBay as new. That's about the biggest audience of marble collectors I know of. The colored glass eagle sulphides were amongst them, but not commissioned by me. What I had done, was to ask a friendly marble maker in Lauscha to obtain some miniature coin sulphides for me, which at the time were being sold on eBay as antique, and for big bucks. My friend did know the maker, who apparently was unwilling to sell them directly to me. So my friend made me a few, including some of his own design (the eagle amongst them), all of which were sold on eBay as new, and at a loss. A continual heads up would be nice, but how should it be done? Here on the boards for an elite few? Who should have warned the high bidder of the $20 cork that just sold for $260 on eBay? Who should have warned the grandmother I saw pay $25 at a local flea-market this weekend for a 1/2 pint of ordinary Jabos? Or the collector who invested some $100,000.00 in Christensen exotics and was turned down years ago by Danny Turner of (the old) Running Rabbit when he wanted them resold? Did the people (which includes me) who spent tens of thousands on California sulphides ever consult the article in Antique & Collectors Reproduction News (June 1994)? Ever hear of the collector who killed himself some some 10 years ago when he found out he wasted a fortune on John Deere marbles? Most of us have been burned; some worse than others. Sure, we'd all like to be educated, but contrary to what they may have taught you from kindergarten on, you'd better learn to do it yourself - no one is going to continually spoon-feed you. Hansel thanks for the responce on this hansel.but i do, and still think a statement should have come out long before people spent big $ on these. as have many warnings been put out on the boards. and, for me, there is no " elites" on the boards. it's supposed to be a community situation for the benefit of all. sure, people get taken left and right, because of .. whatever ... uninformed .. ignorance ... deception .. but when there's a chance to head this off, it should be taken. period. responsibility, hell yes, ... people need to know a train's coming ... i just bought some .. i don't know's .. but i do know they are vintage. not new. no tricks involved there. and the spoon-fed comment .. kinda condensending don't you think ??? i guess it's buyer beware especially from .. whom .. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfish Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Bill, What makes you think my announcing in this forum that an eBay sulphide is new, would have prevented the high bidders from bidding? When this batch of sulphides was made, some 4 to 5 years ago, I had several sold on eBay as new. That's about the biggest audience of marble collectors I know of. The colored glass eagle sulphides were amongst them, but not commissioned by me. What I had done, was to ask a friendly marble maker in Lauscha to obtain some miniature coin sulphides for me, which at the time were being sold on eBay as antique, and for big bucks. My friend did know the maker, who apparently was unwilling to sell them directly to me. So my friend made me a few, including some of his own design (the eagle amongst them), all of which were sold on eBay as new, and at a loss. A continual heads up would be nice, but how should it be done? Here on the boards for an elite few? Who should have warned the high bidder of the $20 cork that just sold for $260 on eBay? Who should have warned the grandmother I saw pay $25 at a local flea-market this weekend for a 1/2 pint of ordinary Jabos? Or the collector who invested some $100,000.00 in Christensen exotics and was turned down years ago by Danny Turner of (the old) Running Rabbit when he wanted them resold? Did the people (which includes me) who spent tens of thousands on California sulphides ever consult the article in Antique & Collectors Reproduction News (June 1994)? Ever hear of the collector who killed himself some some 10 years ago when he found out he wasted a fortune on John Deere marbles? Most of us have been burned; some worse than others. Sure, we'd all like to be educated, but contrary to what they may have taught you from kindergarten on, you'd better learn to do it yourself - no one is going to continually spoon-feed you. Hansel Hot damn! Well said. Where's my clapping hands gif file.............................................................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 thanks for the responce on this hansel.but i do, and still think a statement should have come out long before people spent big $ on these. as have many warnings been put out on the boards. and, for me, there is no " elites" on the boards. it's supposed to be a community situation for the benefit of all. sure, people get taken left and right, because of .. whatever ... uninformed .. ignorance ... deception .. but when there's a chance to head this off, it should be taken. period. responsibility, hell yes, ... people need to know a train's coming ... i just bought some .. i don't know's .. but i do know they are vintage. not new. no tricks involved there. and the spoon-fed comment .. kinda condensending don't you think ??? i guess it's buyer beware especially from .. whom .. bill Bill, I don't intend to sound condescending. Fact is, based on the number of collectors I know and the number of them who frequent marble boards, a *very small* fraction of marble collectors would be alerted to any warnings posted here. Many feel there is too high a "noise to signal ratio." Expecting someone to post warnings of fakes on the boards makes you sound somewhat of an elitist who wants to be spoon-fed. Again, no insult intended. I don't know of a really good way of disseminating marble information. BTW, how many of you think this is an old German marble? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250474913795 Looks too good to me, but I have no other information on it. Anyone know for sure? regards, Hansel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Bill, the problem is where do you make the statement that will reach all collectors, it's sorta impossible wouldn't you agree? It's really up to the buyers to educate themselve's before they go buying something. Whats the deal w/ all the Jabo's floating around, I'm sure they will eventually show up at flea markets and in jars at antique malls, it's impossible to warn the collectors out there unless there is a central location for information concerning marbles. The books were a good start but they are not updated fast enough to keep up w/ all the new stuff being made and they were more of a stupid price guide that screwed a lot of us out of marbles because everyone in their mother used them to price marbles at flea markets. Ebay and the books caused marble prices to go crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 Bill, the problem is where do you make the statement that will reach all collectors, it's sorta impossible wouldn't you agree? It's really up to the buyers to educate themselve's before they go buying something. Whats the deal w/ all the Jabo's floating around, I'm sure they will eventually show up at flea markets and in jars at antique malls, it's impossible to warn the collectors out there unless there is a central location for information concerning marbles. The books were a good start but they are not updated fast enough to keep up w/ all the new stuff being made and they were more of a stupid price guide that screwed a lot of us out of marbles because everyone in their mother used them to price marbles at flea markets. Ebay and the books caused marble prices to go crazy. i agree with what you say gregg. the only 2 places i know of are the discussion boards and by word of mouth. the boards, which i've seen many warnings about a bad .. something .. being posted on many occasions. and appreciated by many. what my thought is that NOT everybody is as smart as ... some .. and if there's a bummer coming in the door .. I would like to know about it. before somebody gets nailed, me,you .. and hearing a lame remark .. ya shouda known ?? well, yea .. but do i .. you .. need to get nailed to wise up ... when the knowledge is there to prevent it ??? end of this for me. marble on. bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTAndrea Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Ebay has also caused marble prices to drop! As more and more collectors use the internet to find things they collect, more and more sellers have emerged to offer their wares. Have you compared the price of, say, a large mint onionskin on ebay vs. what you'd pay for it from a seller at a show? There are fakes at shows too. Just adding the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 Why would someone have repo medals created and not have them stamped "reproductions" or why would someone have sulphides made and not have them marked so they could not be passed off as old. All new shit should be marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfish Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 I just put new tires on my truck a week ago....and guess what....no date. Seriously, trying to force anybody to sign/date anything is crazy in my opinion. Its the crooks that try to pass it off as old that suck. And its also the fault of the buyer for not educating themselves...period. If you got the coin to gamble thats fine, but if getting burned is gonna hurt you then you need to research. I find no fault with someone "reproducing" things. Heck, look at cast iron toys/banks...there are many, many items reproduced....and its all ligit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigafoose Posted August 21, 2009 Report Share Posted August 21, 2009 Whats the deal w/ all the Jabo's floating around, I'm sure they will eventually show up at flea markets and in jars at antique malls Im glad someone said it! IMHO If someone wants to post on an internet forum some info about a possible repop of fake thats great but thinking it HAS TO BE done or a repop item MUST BE marked as such is going to far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now