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MrsMopar
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I quit.

I mean it.

I give.

No way I'll be confident identifying WV swirls when those start getting mixed into the general population.

Would we be able to tell them apart from vintage in hand? I sure can't in the pic.

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OK I'm done,I will not buy any more vintage VW swirls out of America,no way that I can tell the difference old or new from pictures.

Whoa, Whoa, WHOA!!!!!!

For goodness sake people, look at what your saying!!!!

For years, marble companies have been working their butts off to create great looking marbles. That's their JOB... Marketing is all about creating what people want and like...

These are NOT repros... They are a current production of marbles, by people who are trying to make something that looks great!!

Why do we call WV swirls, WV swirls??? Because no one can tell the difference from one to another, right??? SOOOOOOOO, WTF???? These are simply more of the same!! Just because they are made today, not 10, 25, 50 or 75 years ago, doesn't make them bastard marbles!!

At one point, I got reamed BIG TIME for saying how unimportant I thought it was to be able to ID every single stinkin' marble a collector owns... Well guys... Here's the perfect example of what I was talking about...

You people have gotten yourselves into such a freakin' TIZZY over being able to tell what's what, that you can't even appreciate a well made, beautiful marble when you see it, just because it was made TODAY, by people who really give a damn about what they look like!!!

OK, they weren't made today 11/12/09... They were made a few weeks ago... My GOD, they are getting older by the very second!!!

Don't you GET IT???? Time moves on!!! Just because these are made today and not 50 years ago doesn't make them crap!!! In 50 years, they'll be appreciated for exactly what they are!! So you better appreciate that you have the jump on the future and your in the very best time frame to be able to do just that, now... LEARN!!

Soooooo, you can't tell the difference between a 50 year old flame and a new Jabo flame???

First off.... As many have said, I bet it's not that hard.... I hate to say how long it to me to learn the difference between an Akro and a Pelt... But, hey, I learned it!!!

I've said it before and I'll say it again... 25 years ago, no one gave a damn about who made what marble. In fact, few people gave a damn about machine made marbles AT ALL!!! From the view of marble collecting (Not the glass collectors who have studied this stuff much longer) most everything that has been learned about these companies has happened in the past 20-30 years... We considered the whole machine made market to be a stupid forced collectible...

There were stories that Larry Castle had a barn full of BARRELS of marbles, just waiting to be dumped on the market after his book inflated their value... What CRAP!!! In reality, it was just jealousy towards someone who took the initiative to look at a new thing and capitalize on it. Now, look at what we know and what you people will pay for it!!

BUT, that was the mindset then, and look at you!!! It's the mindset NOW...

No one is forcing you to know what and where every single marble is, or was made... Time is not going to stop, so you can catch up. If that's what is important to your collection, you better learn it...

That never was the purpose of the "Old School" collectors. We just like marbles... They were pretty!! They were cool... We liked what we SAW... We didn't need to know the bloodline of the guy who made it....

Just look at a marble... If you like it and you can afford it, BUY IT. If not, walk away!!!

THAT'S what this is supposed to be about... These marbles are BEAUTIFUL!! But, you people have your pedigree CRAP wrapped up so tight, you can't even see that!!!

We just don't need haters to put down every creative idea that rolls into our hobby. You just can't put a new idea into a closed mind!!! Wake up and LOOK at the glass!!!

They are NOT reproductions!! They are marbles that are being created during a timeframe that will unlikely last forever... They are simply what they are. Time marching on and the new kid on the block.... Love 'em, or leave 'em. It's really quite simple...

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I wasn't complaining about the marble. That's a sweet mib.

I was stating facts, the basic fact being that one blew me away when Felicia told me what it was. "Terrible" pictures or no there are clues to pick out from lighting and texture. I had gotten a preview of it when Fel sent it to me to post into photobucket for her and I was trying to figure out whether the clues in her pic pointed to Alley or Champ. The mib looked so familiar that I was about to pull out the box of Pennsboro Alleys Ron sent to see if that's where I found it. Or was it in my miscellaneous swirl box? I needed to check.

And then she told me what it was.

And wow.

Fact: that one is gonna throw a kink in ID's and I'm glad to be aware of it! LOL

Yup, there are conflicting ideals - analyze a mib (and be good at it) vs. enjoy the mib for its aesthetics.

This achievement by Jabo might push me closer to the enjoyment ideal. as you suggest, not such a bad thing.

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Yup, there are conflicting ideals - analyze a mib (and be good at it) vs. enjoy the mib for its aesthetics.

Steph, your right... But, I think, what the REAL confict here is... The conflicting ideals of...

Are you a collector? Or, are you an INVESTOR!!!

If your ideal is collecting, you pay what you can afford to have what you want.

If your an investor, your gonna get pissed off if something happens that deflates the price of your investment!!

Well folks.... Let me tell you how I felt about the 75,000 worth of stock options I inherited when my Mom passed away 2 years ago... By the end of last year, they were down to under 10,000... :fighting-547:

Sometimes, life sucks... But hey, they're back into double digits, now... :cool-smileys-262:

Investing and collecting are two distinctly different concepts. If you've combined the two, you really need to decide what side of that fence your on...

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Yes I like old marbles and I like the history of them.

I didn't say this one is not good looking in fact this one looks great to me.

What I meant to say after seen this marble is,if I want to buy vintage WV swirls than Ebay is the place for me and I can't anymore after seen this marble tell from pictures if they are new Jabo's or old WV swirls.

If you live in America maybe you folks can tell the difference with them in hand.

winnie

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Ah, I see Sue.

And yes, Winnie, I do appreciate your dilemma. I too consider the history of something as part of its innate value. No matter what the colors, I cherish the well-identified WV swirls I received from Ron. Luckily you count Ron among your marble friends. He probably wouldn't mind if you leaned on him even more to help broaden your collection.

Also, you might want to get your hands on some of these Jabos if only for comparison.

Luckily it will be a little while yet before these get seriously circulated among WV swirl collections.

Jabos are good at sparking debate.

Felicia, what size is this one?

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Just because these are made today and not 50 years ago doesn't make them crap . . .

No one is forcing you to know what and where every single marble is, or was made... That never was the purpose of the "Old School" collectors. We just like marbles... They were pretty!! They were cool... We liked what we SAW... We didn't need to know the bloodline of the guy who made it....

Just look at a marble... If you like it and you can afford it, BUY IT. If not, walk away!!!

What Sue said.

And I'm a retired art historian, and will fight you if you think you are more obsessive about terminology and history than me. But that doesn't keep me from buying marbles that I think are beautiful, even when no one (including "the big guys") can ID them.

The two approaches are not really mutually exclusive . . . and . . .

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. . . what the REAL confict here is... The conflicting ideals of...

Are you a collector? Or, are you an INVESTOR!!!

Investing and collecting are two distinctly different concepts. If you've combined the two, you really need to decide what side of that fence your on...

or get comfortable straddling it.

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Steph, it's a 3/4 marble.

And, you can tell by the glass like Kevin mentioned.

And, I don't think there were that many flames made.

And, I like marbles because they're pretty and kewl and fun and I don't care who made it or when they made it, I just like the 'world' it takes me to (it's like calgon take me away...lol)...and...well, they're just awesome!

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Luckily you count Ron among your marble friends. He probably wouldn't mind if you leaned on him even more to help broaden your collection.

Also, you might want to get your hands on some of these Jabos if only for comparison.

It's the same old thing... If you need to know, you need to use all resources to learn...

Winnie, don't dispare too much just yet... I'm still bettin' Kevin is right... This is just one picture. Don't worry about the sky falling until we have far more reason to believe it is...

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I have already seen many salted in groups of vintage marbles in twoe antique stores. And only a real collector would know they were in the bags. But they will make that bag sell to many uneducated folks thinking they are getting a beautiful vintage marble in the bag. I guess no one really cares about these folks.???????? And no Sue they are not reproductions, I think they actually qualify closer to Fakes. The old marbles were made to make kids happy. The new Jabos are made to make adults money. Useing Imported Art glass, never used in vintage machine made marbles.******* Made for adult collectors, Not ever done with vintage machine mades. Made in limited ammounts to make more valuable. Not quite like vintage, they made as many as they could that the kids liked. They are probably more like. Mccormicks, Winlocks or Scott Patricks IMO. I guess the only real similarity is that they were all made to put money in someones pockets!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I believe the people who say they participated in the Jabo runs for the love of the marbles, and to support Jabo, and not as a means to turn a buck.

Not that there's anything wrong with making money. Which marble company owner didn't hope to make a profit when they started making marbles?

Martin Christensen didn't get into the business for the love of marbles or the love of kids (to the best of my understanding). He was an entrepreneur.

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I believe the people who say they participated in the Jabo runs for the love of the marbles, and to support Jabo, and not as a means to turn a buck.

Not that there's anything wrong with making money. Which marble company owner didn't hope to make a profit when they started making marbles?

Martin Christensen didn't get into the business for the love of marbles or the love of kids (to the best of my understanding). He was an entrepreneur.

Absolutely.

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Hey, don't quote me saying "entrepreneur"! (LOL) . . I'm still trying to figure out the right word for Martin Christensen! hehehe

An ingenious tinkerer, a very efficient businessman and manager, a philanthropist at least to some degree, a retiree who couldn't stay idle, . . .

He started making glass marbles after he retired, because he realized he could adapt his ball bearing machine to glass. He planned to sell the new patent as he did the original but then decided to actually get into the business, because it seemed like a good moneymaking idea (to the best of my understanding).

To me the most mythological and misunderstood person might be Berry Pink. I think he claimed he was in the business for the joy of the children, but how much of what he said was him trying to sell an image so he could sell more marbles?

Let's quit comparing Dave McCullough to Fiedler and start comparing him to Martin! :-) Tinkerer, retiree who won't stop, generous guy, etc. :-)

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