Who Made Oxblood's

[Alan]

Ok, so is Oxblood a color as named by kids? Or is it a type of glass? If it was named by kids, it makes sense to me that they were naming a color, and had no idea about microcrystalline copper. And if named by children, whose to say what true oxblood is? I think it's up to the marble collectors to open their minds and understand that we are debating something that was thought up by prepubescent youth. The only "True Oxblood" comes from oxen, and it's red, sticky, warm, and some people make sausage out of it.

The use of the term "oxblood" was used to describe color long before the term was used to describe marble glass color. It is not exclusive to marbles or glass, but the color it describes is reasonably consistent between glass, paint etc.

I know of no use of the term "oxblood" traceable to children in the heyday of marble playing. If anyone does, or has vintage sales literature that reflects it - that would expand the discussion.

[Alan]

I wouldn't hasten to concede naming conventions to those misused on Ebay - or frankly anywhere else. I haven't conceded that Ebay reflects the core vintage marble collecting market - because I don't believe that it does. Just because people misuse a term doesn't dilute the true meaning of it. This discussion is about what the term means and how one can define it in a way that can be applied to the hobby. Although discussions of the chemistry behind the multiple methods of producing oxblood glass in vintage marbles is relevant and I think important to understand at some level - at the end of the day we need to be able to hold a marble in our hand and say "This is oxblood BECAUSE _________________________________." Discussions of chemistry or the presence of micro-crystalline structures are interesting to the more experienced collector - but they are no help to the collector - and especially the novice collector - who is attempting to learn naming conventions properly.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM------Sausage!!!!!!!!

Nah,I'd rather have a fish taco.Hold the taco part!

I think its Ok to have differant perceptions of whats oxblood.

I just dont like the word,True,assigned to,one,recent,definition.Its kind of forcing an opinion or definitoin.If anything should be labeled,True oxblood,I would think it should be based on the earliest "known".

Id rather hear,akro oxblood,peltier oxblood,mfc oxblood,alley oxblood,jabo oxblood,ect.

Just as long as ebay-oxblood doesnt get into the mix.Oh waite a minite,its already too late for that!

For Sale:Akro,single pontil,transitional cloud,with purple aventurine oxblood,in mint condition.It only has 2 small chips,and 1 large one!-----BAH HA HA HA,,,,,,,,,,,

[MARBLEMISER]

I'm not sure of the maker of the far left in this pic.

I think it may be CAC?

marblemiser

[MARBLEMISER]

And I'm not sure of the maker of the

second from the left in this pic.

Would it be considered a horse hair ox?

marblemsier

[david Chamberlain]

The colors on the far left one in your first post are Akro and I see all of the marbles in both posts as Akro.

As for Oxblood I am pretty much conditioned by my acceptance of it in Akro marbles(and others) that I first saw in the late 1980s. Purely a visual determination. Technicalities aside, I feel so much safer forging ahead with that simple acceptance. I know it when I see it! David

[roany poany]

It has gotten to the point where we see many "Is this oxblood?" threads and folks hope that the brown in their marble is indeed what we call oxblood. I think that the interest in oxblood can cause us to over-define it.

My two cents,

Alan

well said Alan,you hit the nail on the thumb, or something like that, (it's right up there with "is this a citrus?'

I'm wondering...are there any serious or semi-serious marble collectors with over 1 year's expierence that DON'T know oxblood when they see it in hand?

[Steph]

Oxblood? . . (pix from Joe Street's site)

[Steph]

Is that a hard one? or have people lost interest?

:computer-17:

[lstmmrbls]

IMO Accidental, whatever it is

[marboman]

Steph,your mib looks like a Japanese pinch pontil.Cool marble

[glangley]

I think it looks like oxblood. But that's me, and I have no gauge or magnifying loop to look for the tiny crystals. Although I like that idea, that you could actually see the crystals. But can you with every Akro marble out there that has what looks like oxblood? What I mean is, Akro is well accepted to have made marbles with the micro crystalline in them, But, do all Akro oxblood marbles have the crystalline shine? Does that make sense? Can you really see it that easily that you could pick up an unknown marble, and check it for micro crystals?

I Love marbles, and I buy what I like. I have a grasp of what oxblood is to me. But I am not at the point in my collecting to be that specific while looking for good mibs. If it looks good, and looks like oxblood to me with the naked eye, that's what I am going to call it. I'll even tell people who ask me about it that it is oxblood. But like everything I say, it's my opinion.

Now if it's easy to pick up a mib and see those crystals without a 30-50x microscope, just using the eye then I'll pick my marbles apart and check them. Ones that do have it will be in one place and those that don't have them will be in another place.

I guess what I was asking above is, out of those two piles, will I have akro marbles in each or just one?

Then again, it all comes down to my eyes. And since everyone's eyes are different, it's about as usless as an opinion. Unless it's easy to see the crystals, and everyone can see them. Then it would cut a straight line through this entire issue. But I believe all that will do is divide the oxblood into two categories, ones with micro crystals and one without. It would not dismiss those collectors that see oxblood in the marbles of other companies.

Also, if it is easy to see, and alot of this is riding on the fact that it is, couldn't a company use fine aventurine and mix it in with their red?

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

It looks like an oxblood to me.

[m!b$]

Here are some marbles with (what some would consider to be) Oxblood (while maybe others wouldn't). It's pretty easy to see, I think, why anyone might call Akro's Oxblood, "true" oxblood (or MFC's, but I don't have any of that anymore).

Included in the second picture are: MK, Vitro, Peltier, Ravenswood, Champion, Alley, and a German Onionskin

[Steph]

Agree that looks like oxblood (and yup Bo, to me that looks like a japanese mib, and yup very cool - wouldn't mind having it!) And agree the ox(like) part is accidental.

Fwiw, Gary, my suspicion is that it likely is copper based. I don't THINK that old marble makers used aventurine on purpose. But I do like to think they used copper-related colors. I want to believe. ;-)

M!b$ pic shows a trend I've seen. When we think of accidental ox - the kind of glass which many non-newbies might agree looks oxlike - we are most often looking at things in a blue to green range. Or so it has seemed to me. And whether or not mib makers used copper-based colors for that range, it is true that SOME people used copper to make those colors, at least the aqua shades.

I started a thread at LOM about the aqua <--> ox connection. Here's that link in case anyone is interested.

*whew* now I need to put my head down. This is such a heavy subject. :-)

[Ally Opp]

When I first got started in this hobby, I was seeing oxblood everywhere and buying stuff that I thought qualified. Now that I have a good collection of Akro marbles, I can make my own personal judgement about oxblood and not really feel to worried about it. I don't have any of the older MFC's, so I would not presume to know for a fact if I had one or not. I'll cross that bridge when one lands in my lap (odds?). If I found one in the wild, I think I would have a good base of knowledge to move forward, but until I have handled enough MFC's to be comfortable to call it oxblood, I would rather error on the side of it just looking like the oxblood color. I would probably risk spending money on a suspected MFC oxblood, only because I know what oxblood is supposed to look like, rather than wishing it looked like oxblood. I do have some other marbles, maybe Alleys, maybe Champions, that have glass that LOOKS like Akro oxblood, but not EXACTLY. For now, I know Akro made a lot of them (lots of cullet) and so did MFC (I'm going on faith, because I don't have one). The others companies....I don't know and don't worry too much about it. I have learned the hard, fast way what the stuff is and isn't. That is what is important to me. Everyone else new to this hobby has to figure it out. All the information on this thread is vital, but they need to have it in hand, and to have made some mistakes, to really figure it out. eBay does serve a sinister purpose in educating those willing to learn. I do laugh a lot, marveling at how many marbles are for sale with "real" oxblood, when it truth, the stuff isn't that common. I agree that in 20 years, anything dark red or reddish brown will be called oxblood by default. The serious collectors are going to have to come up with new terms, like "24 kt oxblood" versus "zirconian oxblood".

[glangley]

So, one more question from a newbie, (and I really don't mind that term because it's true) does oxblood have to have striations in it? And my question from up above still doesn't have an answer, can you see the crystals with the naked eye on all MFC and Akro marbles? If so, it would be a lot easier to say "Yes this is..." Or "No this doesn't have the shine".