Some Old Some New

[triker]

Galen,

#1 is not what i wrote. No insults intended. And i am glad you posted it. Just thinking maybe you are under estimating a lot of collectors. Also i did not know vintage 3/4" marbles meant CAC?

Bruce

[lstmmrbls]

No insult taken! It didn't mean just CAC but right now CACs are the 3/4 inch types they sometimes look like the most often. The smaller sizes it is usually the premium Oxbloods they will most often resemble. lets just hope it doesn't get worse.

[triker]

OOPS!,

Now i see i put #1 at the bottom of my first post! sorry about that.

I"m tired,Tomorrow is another day.

Bruce

[duffy]

nope i believe you believe that jabo collectors have second class collections or you wouldnt have said it...another attempt to wiggle out ...imho.....theres no reason to belittle people...

[orbboy]

Skipping all the B.S I have a question. Galen since you have that handfull there in front of you, do the Jabo's have any tiny dimples like most (not all) Akro Oxes do? I was eyeballing the Cork thingie that Dani won, but never pulled the trigger. It looked to clean to me. No ripples or dimples in the glass and what not. Plus There were no little hooks on the ends of either pole (I know not always a sure sign, but a helpful one) that I could see. So I guess what I'm asking is, do the new Jabos have any of the old traits? Or are they for lack of better terms cleaner and freasher looking? Just wondering!

[lstmmrbls]

I guess I don't know what dimples your talking about. The red base one I have has a small cold roll but those others are nice and smooth. In hand they are similar but certainly not exactly the same by any means. I have none of the type that Dani had purchased. Although the patch ones are pretty darn close.

[orbboy]

Thanks for the info. I grew up with antique glass everything so I notice all the little nuances between old and newer glass. Pictures are never ever a true representation of the actual product. Having them inhand to compair is. I'm assuming from your answer that they are pretty damn close to older Akro in most regards?

[lstmmrbls]

Yes they are IMO.

[orbboy]

Eeeek! Good to know. Thanks.

[ann]

Kinda hate to step into this mess, but I'm sorry -- I really take exception to the constantly-repeated notion that Jabo collectors aren't likely to have good vintage collections and vice versa. I am both, and have both, plus a good collection of antique mibs -- glass and non-glass [and in case you're wondering what I mean by good, I mean that in the antique glass category I have, for example, a number of rare latticinios, including blue, most in mint condition, damnit]. And I am very tired of the notion that if you don't have boxes of Christian Agate flames, guineas, and cobras lying around, you're not a serious collector, and/or don't know what you're talking about. Keep at it if you wish, but I would suggest -- as many others have -- that it is an attitude that is in-and-of-itself inflammatory, and when it is introduced over and over again, from thread to thread to thread, it can only be intentional.

[ann]

Yes they are IMO.

Oh. And by the way. I don't think they are. IMO.

[david Chamberlain]

I have the supposed "Bad Boys" from this run in hand as I speak(or type). They were sent to me in one of Dave McCullough's patented rectangular boxes and I've what I expect is a fairly representative cross-section of them. Of course my opinion of them is prejudiced by too much marble knowledge but I find most of them slicker than snot. I could squirt these out of my hand w/o feeling a ripple in the glass. I'm pretty sure in any other encounter with them I'd right off say, "Jabo!" In the continuing pantheon of marble production and in this one in particular yes you'll find some look-a-likes but I believe with even a modicum of marble experience and the opportunity to look at all sides of the marble, judging the size, reflecting on the shades of color and striations and the whole host of other characteristics one would have to conclude that it had to be new.

But human nature being what it is and all together too often $money$ being the name of the game and inexperience being a quick road to folly with possibly a smattering of greed on both sides of the marble transaction, of course, we're going to have this marble making a sorry turn in the road as it rolls along. But what does it all mean and who's to blame? Obviously some of us have opinions on this but I do not see anyone in the creation of these marbles purposely attempting to undermine the integrity of the field of marbles as has been repeatedly impugned. Personally I find the marbles rather cool. And progressively the newer Jabos coming off the rollers cooler and cooler.

Read the books, go to the marble shows, talk with other collectors and handle a lot of marbles. I mostly operate out of a second nature feel for marbles from having handled so many so those of you who haven't need to act accordingly. Don't purchase beyond your means. Buy condition and what you like and if later it turns out you didn't buy what you thought you'd bought at least it is in good condition and you like/liked it. Life is lessons! David

[catfish]

Kinda hate to step into this mess, but I'm sorry -- I really take exception to the constantly-repeated notion that Jabo collectors aren't likely to have good vintage collections and vice versa. I am both, and have both, plus a good collection of antique mibs -- glass and non-glass [and in case you're wondering what I mean by good, I mean that in the antique glass category I have, for example, a number of rare latticinios, including blue, most in mint condition, damnit]. And I am very tired of the notion that if you don't have boxes of Christian Agate flames, guineas, and cobras lying around, you're not a serious collector, and/or don't know what you're talking about. Keep at it if you wish, but I would suggest -- as many others have -- that it is an attitude that is in-and-of-itself inflammatory, and when it is introduced over and over again, from thread to thread to thread, it can only be intentional.

Wow, could you twist words any more than that?

[ann]

Point out the twisty parts to me and I'll try to clarify.

[lstmmrbls]

I guess I didn't follow my own rule(Keep the posts to marbles and about marbles) close enough. I am very sorry if anyone has taken my statements to suggest that there are not Jabo collectors with nice vintage collections. I personally know one. I did just get an email from a major Akro collecter that thought they may have some Akros that would match fairly well to some Of the Jabos I posted. Many folks will have different opinions. Isn't that OK? Why can this not be accepted by all? I just wish these discussions could be done from both sides in a civil manner. I do post short and to the point posts and do not always think about how some folks may take offense to them. It is not my objective to insult anyone. And I am sorry if I have insulted anyone. My objective is just to show another side to certain things going on in the marble world. I am not trying to insult anyone or what they collect. The boards get a bit slow when the only things posted are Look at my pretty marble posts. And no one really learns much from them. I like a good back and forth discussion as it gets a lot of folks posting and occasionally some real good info gets posted. As for the Jabos I know I am not going to get the new runs stopped. But if I can even get a small spark lit in a few folks minds maybe fewer vintage looking marbles will be coming off the rollers. And if I didn't do or say what I really feel in my heart why bother at all. And I am really glad everyone doesn't think the same. It would be way too boring if we did. Peace,Galen

[catfish]

Point out the twisty parts to me and I'll try to clarify.

Boxes of flames, guineas, and cobras for one example.

[MrsMopar]

maybe fewer vintage looking marbles will be coming off the rollers.

This is what I was talking about before with the machines...How do you stop super hot glass from coming down and randomly forming some sort of pattern during its final process? Isn't it pretty much whatever happens during the cutting/shearing and while its rolling determine what the result will be? I'd think it's like a potluck thing and you get what you get and do a happy dance that they are round and attractive.

:-) Felicia

[marbleus1]

Great pics of the main topic on the whole board.

Tuned in.

Heh folks news flash Galen leans towards CAC.

Just opinions thats all.

The dead horse might be the presumed prosecution of Jabo.

Galens post was typical Galen.

I collect Jabos and did not find it offensive. He may think as he chooses.

I enjoy differing viewpoints, admitably dislike whining.

Got a much better (including 3/4" CAC) vintage than Jabo collection - (still rassl'n that percieved against actual value thing).

Again great pics of the topic most discussed even requested.

Thanks, David

Hopefully Steph will be collecting these to close for comfort pics in various threads for a compilation.

David your last post was an enjoyable read, but your previous post in this thread seemed to jus ridicule something that you had requested, nigh challenged be presented. Took ya long enough.

[psia-antique]

Just wanted to put my 2 cents on this post. not trashing anybody. But Galen! #2 Vintage collectors not having Jabos to photo! #3 Jabo collectors not having vintage to compare with? Most of if not all Jabo investors/collectors that i know all have World Class Vintage Marble Collections and world class Jabo collections. They buy sell trade Vintage marbles and Jabo marbles. My point being what is the point of #1 and #2?

Marble On,

Bruce

mMost of the peopelyou hang out with are also reconized experts in specific areas of marbles. Dr. Alley congrats to you four on your well written thorough Alley article.

[psia-antique]

I know there may be one or two problems with getting folks to put up pics for comparison.

1. No matter what are posted some will say no resemblance and insult the person posting so why would they bother?

2. Most vintage collectors are not going to have Jabos to take pictures of.

3. Most of the jabo collecters don't have the vintage marbles to compare them to.

4. Some of the folks that have the best lookalike Jabos may not want to post them as it may lower their value for future sales.

5. It takes a lot of time to take good pics and post them just to have someone ridicule the pics or the posted comments. This is the main reason so many of the past board members have stopped posting!!!!!!!!

6. And how many collectors with 3/4" premium types to compare the Jabos to still even post?

7. How many 3/4" premium types are even still out there to compare the jabos with?

And to continually ridicule someone for their opinions is just plain rude. I constantly receive it from a couple of folks that just do not want to see or believe there may be problems if Jabo makes vintage looking mibs. And just to clarify things one last time for those that want to keep misreading and putting words in my mouth here is what I have stated.

1. I said some vintage lookalikes(as proved by certian ebay sales have been made by Jabo during the new runs(never said the ones already made were done to look vintage on purpose..

2. I also said I have noticed a lot less of the Aventurine lutz mica etc being used in the last few runs.

3. I said Dave and I talked a couple of times about how to get flames and a more vintage look.

4. I said I do not believe there is any reason for Jabo to purposefully make marbles that look vintage

5. I suggested keeping the above mentioned(1) glass types and using a large ammount of colors in the marbles would be a great way to keep them not looking Vintage.

6. I also said there was what appeared to me a trend towards more vintage looking marbles and I hoped it really was not happening.

Thats about it. If any of this is rude or disrespectful to anyone at all I apologize. I try not to behave that way. And I would like to add it is nice that they do keep most of the new marbles to 3/4", this does help lesson confusion a bit.

If, as you say, JABO has single strem machines, then they ( the machines) wouldn't be able to make flames...

I,too, have talked to David about making flames, but not once or twice...very regularly for 3 years. I think you will start to understand better if you speak with him more regularly.

Thank God there is less AV and mica, some of us don't like it much.

I think some of your marble suggestions may have some validity, but only when it is your money on the line. Want to sign up for a few grand and share your thoughts and ideas with the guy who is putting the run together? I'll bet you two would have fun at it. Color choices are not something I have ever told David since he, and only he, makes the marbles.

Some have seen my weak vintage collections. I sure could use some help doing a better a job. Thanks in advance.

You always talk about sales. I'll bet most partners in the runs have sold few. I know for sure that over 60% of three different Tribute Runs are not for sale.

Some JABO collectors we might know in common are Marble Alan, Marble Bert, Marlow Peterson, Ron Shepherd,Michael Johnson, Howard Powell. Maybe they can help with the comparison marbles you seek.

[lstmmrbls]

Actually Felecia they can add different colors(or types) of glass that do not appear in Vintage swirl marbles. As for the patterns there are adjustments that can be made that do things like increase the likelehood of flames, how many colors show up and even the degree of swirling. Early on I suggested that by keeping certain settings and adding similar colors it might be possible to make similar marbles. In Canton Dave M. brought me 2 marbles from different runs that looked identical(not saying the swirl pattern was exactly the same)) other than a fine line of lutz in one of them. David said that was the only way he could possibly tell they were from different runs. Obviously the same colors got used and the machine was set the same. In the same note they can make them look different. Which is the main objective of each run I believe. The same look will not sell as well.

[Steph]

If as you say, JABO has single strem machines, then they ( the machines) wouldn't be able to make flames...

If that is so, then this is a new concept to me. I thought that Christensen flames were single-stream marbles.

[lstmmrbls]

As for flames CAC Alley and jabo use(d) single stream machines for flames as are the German wirepulls that flame. All single stream marbles. (ONE STREAM COMING OUT OF ONE FURNACE) Constantly saying that isn't so does not make it a fact. Separate streams need to come together outside different sources to make a multiple stream marble. If what you are saying(glass from different crucibles melted and meeting inside the same furnace are also multiple stream marbles then the only single stream marbles are What???? single colors. Crucibles in one furnace do not make for multiple stream marbles, plain and simple. Cateyes are a great example of multiple stream marbles

[psia-antique]

If that is so, then this is a new concept to me. I thought that Christensen flames were single-stream marbles.

Please define a single stream and a multi stream machine and I think you will find the answer to your own question.

[lstmmrbls]

The threadjacking is getting rampant