The Marketing Of New Run Marbles

[marbleus1]

Alrighty

Two years back on another board I tried to ascertain The "value" of these marbles and had concerns over this New Marketing concept (new to marbles)

Well in what has become the norm for Jabo discussion I was informed in contentiuos fashion that Market determines Value, hell I knew that and questioned as to the real and hidden agenda for my questions.

Market Value, right, but there are many quanifiers and they were absent and after much ado, pretty much remain so.

So here I go again

The differance I see from the past, is marbles for toys compared to marbles for collectors.

Well first would be quality control - for toys quality control was in place, unsuited marbles were culled by the company to whatever standards were in place but they were in place.

New Run - NO Company(uniform) Quality control. None I said and will glady explain.

The company doesnt own the marbles or the glass. Its as if they have no concerns for the disbursment of this product that bears their name.

Within this area and I have talked to Many of the Sellers personally, information varies from source to source.

Some say at defensive times the cull is high Mint Value Collector grade mibs 20% - 80% to cull, Other sellers 70% to 80%

collector grade marbles.

Of course differant runs differant results, doesnt change the point!

The expansion of the "asmade Mint" catagorie.

heres what happening, grading is subjective at best - and the owners grade and decide whats for sale but no cull, some sellers Mint means mint, they are few. Others asmade mint, others Nm+ on and on.

Heres what aint happening no destroyed marbles some sellers selling everything under differant grades some sellers selling only Mint.

Whats happening with the cull - Giveaways sure, boxed and left to sit sure(of course at some point this will enter the market weather you or descendants, much if not most cull is bought by other sellers who do not have concerns over what happens to it - its for sale.

That means for the most part that every marble made will enter the market.

I have them out of round, I have them (sweet Flames) with basically golf ball indents (probably from the extended stretching to produce flames and increased cooling time before rollers) and it aint a few its lots, I have others from sellers as crisp as any makers marble

(quality control) it is entirely absent.

So as the marbles roll thru the auctions there is no way to tell which is which - will that mean the asmade dented marble is worth the same as my mint Flame? or more likely my mint Flame worth the same as the dented one. I know if your a maker that aint ur concern.

I'm a lill confused at this lack of controll on a "collector" grade item, you would think the controll higher than marbles for pennies toys.

So market Value and an undefineable large # of marbles. Man it sure looks like its a good thing we collectors know our values or overhype could lead to some large losses.

Why should we care, whats wrong with a less than a penny marble selling for $45?

I aint answering that one its for you!

Ya gonna take this the wrong way but its truth

I was so glad I was watching the Dirty Job marble episode by myself, when Mr. McCullogh stood on National TV and stated this marble is worth $300, a marble that still had smoke rising from it(not really, but close) cost at most pennies and could be made at anytime.

I would not have been able to explain the factors that drove it and believe It would have cast even more doubt over the basic sanity of a "marble collector" expessly me.

when 2+2 aint 4 the equation is out of balance.

I know love of the hobby, I know vested interest but before as a entrapenuer you explain the risk and cost of ur ventures let me Tell You

as a collector I got about 10 lbs of these marbles they fit in a shoe box - collectors boxes included (not the weight)

about 35% are actually mint and I got around $1200 in the game.

After you figure a resonably tidy profit on the recapturing of your investment.

Thats about in line with what you would think, right, $120 a pound or so.

If not, welcome to the what the hell might be the value of these marbles thread.

David

The cull is high and half of these marbles are not suited for collector sales.

Withou quanity and quality control there cant be real value in a collectable

it aint 4

[Akro gatherer]

It seems that the 3/4" one sell for about $1.00 each. these are the commons. the flames, adventurine, gold, or other rarities sell for more. there was a flame that was oxblood, eggyolk, and other stuff that went very high on abay. it was a one of a kind i was told by my favorite Notre Dame grad. I cant afford the high end ones but would pay more than 1.00 for some. These new 1" ones may go higher than 1.00 because it takes more glass and effort to make these. still not bad. of course the rarer/nicer ones will go for more.

but in the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

[marbleus1]

How much do you think the hype and controversy adds if anything?

and how do you discuss them without driving same hype?

and is Market Value on a hyped collector item detramental or of no consequence to the long term viability of something as questionable as marble collecting.

David

[ann]

. . . but in the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

Didn't we already do this thread? A buncha times?

[Greatmacscott]

While I do think new marbles are sometimes pretty and interesting, the making of these runs reminds me of "collectors" plate series (and other items too) that were popular several years ago. Anyone interesting in a first edition Greats of the World Wrassling Federation? :-)

I thought I would be able to retire by know on its value but Dick the bruiser isn't as big as he used to be. lol

[marboman]

My answer? Give me a pound of Pelt!This thread needs some marbles,Me thinks there are some sore eye's out there.Good points David.As a businessman you have summed it up well.Assuming 30% mark-up,the question is if your not makin money why do it? But it's more than that.... I never did get interested in them enough to even consider them as an investment,and the marbles I have are not investments.But some of them ARE "Jewel Quality Marbles" with provinance.You can't buy a stick of that provinance.I'm stickin with vintage.Everything in it's own time,30-50 years.Hey now Vitro's are collectable,right on time.

[marbleus1]

Quote:"but in the end something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it."

true the reason also for my confusion.

Past marbles we may not know how many but we know no more. So market Value makes corrections as they come to market.

This seems more in line with the finacial collapse (alright, alright give me a sec.)

The stock market changed from value driven to perception driven. It was worth what the players(working off values touted by insiders) percieved.

Similar here The values percieved by the collectors, many insiders(to the rest of the marble world were all insiders).

and regardless of what folks will say about the crazy assed online marble community what goes on here most definatly can and does effect prices.

And when people in good standing state thats a fine marble and will bring $50 it most certainly does affect value. Is it a $50 marble cause soneone will pay it? well of course yes but as a "trained" collector is it?

Had the company (or sellers) came out with a reasonale pricing plan for a basically no value at the time marble

and then collector interest had drove the pricing I would probably not fill the same.

If quality or quanity control was in place I could have some expectations of sustainability.

But its a Capitalist Venture so as a collector the obligation is on me/us to determine value and as collectors if percieved value exceeds actual value didnt we do it.

The entrapanuer owes nothing to the hobby but as collectors if we avoid the discuusion or sit aside, because it dont concern us or friends are involved.

I jus know I still aint comfortable with developments and havent been able to wrap my hands around what it really means.

David

[marbleus1]

Quote:"Didn't we already do this thread? A buncha times"

if I did I forgot it so I'm doing it again

and marble makers and cohorts I will be as understanding as you are

if you care not to participate that is fine

but its my thread and unless closed or bounced I can handle my bussiness.

david

lol at greatmacscott

marboman if the markup was 1000% the marble would be less than a dollar!

[marbleus1]

Ann?

the disposal of Cull was actually already discussed?

I did miss that, but was gone a while!

What was ur take on the overall quality of marbles being sold to collectors?

thank you in advance, david

[david Chamberlain]

I'm definitely not speaking with authority here but regarding the Quality Control concern it has been my understanding that in every Contract run the effort at Jabo has been no more or no less than any other run in past History to lessen those factors that produce bum marbles. Maybe I don't get it but I don't see where the matter of Quality Control has anything differently to do with these Jabo runs than any past runs in marble History. Would you care to elucidate on this 'cause I'm all ears and I will admit it if I flat out missed a clear and lucid explanation already. David

[marbleus1]

and that was for "cheap" toy marbles

in the past unsuitable was thrown in the trash. we know cause we dug um up.

do you think all marbles manufactured, especially for collectors are suitable to sell?

Are you saying marbles were never culled at Jabo?

Are you saying out of round should be sold, dimpled sold?

Are you saying Jabo removed such marbles before deliverying them to owners

Are you saying that the 20% or 30% or 60% of not MINT marbles are of no consequence?

Are you saying that if a ruputable seller culls his marbles for quality then sells the cull it has no consequence?

Are you saying the #'s of marbles to actually hit market has no consequence?

Nope ya said none of that you said Jabos is special, I know already!!!!!!

I've been short on explanations so far thats why ya missed it!

So quality of marbles is a none issue - also ?

Let me help ya see why it differs

In the past they were Jabos

In the past they were dollars maybe a pound

Now they are not Jabos

they belong to individual owners who value them at a considerable higher rate.

Where is that value?

What the real Mint ones may be worth is a question

What about half of them that make market are worth I already Know,

marble has to start round!

David

I'll repeat one time only I like the new marbles.

I will kindly thank you to not interfer with the questions I have about MY marbles.

Maybe sometimes you will have to read it twice to understand me, I'm sorry.

but I'm done with the what does it matter to you - their my marbles and I'm a marble collector and I aint happy with the ways this new venture was delivered to ME the collector.

I dont think new collectors should be forking over $40 a pop and if I can shed some light on it I shall.

If the thread show me that my questions have no consequence then I shall feel relief.

OKAY

I think these new marbles have been detramental to the cohesivness of the community and that shouldnt be the case.

I jus cant really figure out why?

too pretty?

too costly?

too jeolous?

is the message Mr. Collector if you cant figure Value or its too high dont collect.

Am I the only one that this seems odd to?

its real bothersome

its been real bothersome

since it begun

and truthfully

dont know why?

I got no problem with the cost to collect

of any other marble

altough as a group we have been known to warn

and I have the same feeling here!

Am I only going to be able to buy MInt from a few sellers in hand

wont be able to tell by picture so getting a deals out

damnitman RETAIL Market Value

on a new machined marble

not Shamrocks

a toy

not a toy

a colloctable

not a collectable no control

I know the marbles make a lot of peoples heads hurt aint ya noticed

Well Jabo made the big Time

down the road I hope

really

We are still as proud

I've spent good money.

I believe!

yet my questions piss ya off

and it aint the money, anyone "investing" in marbles is a lunatic

yet I have a huge investment in the collection

I give away as many marbles as anyone

[david Chamberlain]

I really do not give a flying f--- how you feel about your marbles or Jabo marbles. Seems to me that I asked you about the Quality Control matter which I could not make any sense of. And I have gone back and read the thing again. That was the only thing that I wanted some clearer understanding of. But I'll tell you right now that I really don't give a s--- about that as well. David

[Alan]

Didn't we already do this thread? A buncha times?

Yes - but there always seems to be room for more

for some folks when it come to Jabo runs.

[david Chamberlain]

Yes. It has been bled to death! And the bleeding goes on. I really tried hard to see some continuity of thought or congruence in David's treatise but even when I asked an innocent question I was assailed with ulterior motives. Yes, there appears to be no end to it. David

[marbleus1]

Sure wish I could recall who was lecturing on the amount of marbles produced and how small an impact that would make!

Arguing that compared to Vintage companies the numbers were miniscule. The same Vintage companies(whos marble were shot in slingshots)not saved and a small percentage survived and didnt send out rejects.

But these small "number" runs are everyone destined for market no matter the quality

Thats not interesting at all?

Beside telling me to get sucked

You really didnt find one question in ALL of them to answer!

Thats not surprising in the least

its the way every Jabo discussion goes and then the same peckerhead crys foul!

Hell Please try one more time to find any "valid" question I posed to answer

for a kindred spirit

David

[marbleus1]

Try this one

Should every marble made be available for market?

I'm thinking ur first post said you didnt see the need for..........blah..blah

qoute:"Maybe I don't get it but I don't see where the matter of Quality Control has anything differently to do with these Jabo runs than any past runs in marble History. Would you care to elucidate on this 'cause I'm all ears and I will admit it if I flat out missed a clear and lucid explanation already. David"

now "elucidate"ing more than the opening post would be difficult

but damnitman I tried in post #11

of course this was preceded by a nother regular to the field

quote:"Didn't we already do this thread? A buncha times?"

[sissydear]

I'd like to address cull. I am speaking only for myself. I don't keep any of my share that are not mint. At first i was trash canning the really bad ones and putting some cold rolls and out of rounds in my cullet garden. Then Andy Davis phoned me and asked if I would send him my cullet. He said he would make tops and keep some and give me some. The first Tribute run cull went in the trash. I wouldn't give anybody a marble I wouldn't keep. The second and third Tribute runs - the cull went to Andy and I have really nice tops made from it. I have enough tops now so the 4th Tribute run cull is still sitting in a plastic baggy at my house. I have a lot of marbles I wouldn't buy from runs 2, 3, and 4. I have some in my cullet garden. I put others under the marble tree for the kids. The kids think thay are pretty. Maybe I would too, if I didn't have better ones. I can't keep it all. This last run - the new one had problems. i haven't looked at mine yet - I'm rolling down the highway and won't be home until late tomorrow. I heard from the others who have sorted already that they have about 40% cull. I imagine mine will be no different. i won't sell out of round or cold roll marks. The new run has shattered marbles and cold rolls. What do you do with them if not make them into tops or trash them? If I don't want it, why would I think anybody else would? That's my take on cull.

About value? I haven't a clue. I haven't sold any of the lutz marbles. I have sold others for $3 and $4 A few that are really rare (very few in numbers) (and extra special pretty) I've gotten $10. I can't even speculate on value. I haven't sold enough to do that. I have given a lot away. A few people in the Tribute runs have gotten their investment back. However, when you add in a week at a motel while running, food away from home, gas for the car or truck, I wonder if anybody other than the West Virginia participants have recouped their investment. Please don't start the argument about being in it for the money. That won't wash with me. Weldon and I haven't done it for the money. In fact, this last run I did for "sweat equity". We've done it 4 times and now we're moving on to spending our money on other things.

Spending money on JABO special runs did not keep us from buying vintage and hand made contemps. We are still collecting - actually more contemps than vintage. We've reached the point that it's hard to find vintage we don't already have. How many of a marble do I need? My answer is 5 alike most of the time, sometimes 10, sometimes 25. When I have enough I don't buy more. I'm really not into selling so I don't need more of the same. David, I know I'm weird, but hope this helps your questions. Edna

[marbleus1]

Not at all I appreciate anyone reconizing that I aint jus beat'n a bush. even if I am it aint for the pure "fun of it.

I have been acquiring samples of these marble since the beginning

and out of round and other than mint is prevalent.

I believe most partners have had inquries into there rejects by "retailers".

I dont think for collector grade marbles anything but Mint should be allowed to leave the premises

It dont matter who I got them from

they are Jabos

if my jabos arnt up to snuff who would I blame.

Jabo, who else

everyones ok with that? it was retoricle believe you me I know the answer to that.

David

David is this the tretise or the the assailment? quote marbleus1:"I will kindly thank you to not interfer with the questions I have about MY marbles.

Maybe sometimes you will have to read it twice to understand me, I'm sorry.

but I'm done with the what does it matter to you"

and your post is response to me for that whoa

let me step it back a notch

afor you really get mad

[sissydear]

Just speaking for me now, LOL! If'n I bot ment marbles and they was arrivin' cold rolled and egg shaped I'd have a mind to ax for my muny back and I wouln't bi from that sellor no mo. I mite even tell everbody who that sellor was. David, do you realize how difficult it was for me to write like that. How do you do it so quickly? You have talent!

[marbleus1]

Half of the board wont talk to the other half jus spew. not jus this one.

Of the Run "partners" 1/3 dont like 2/3

The tales that are going around(whoevers reading this, not urs, everybodys got tales everybody)

its like Peyton Place

long established relationships leading to fights and slander.

everyone accused of everything by everybody

ya cant list all

and there aint a problem

David

[sissydear]

I've heard a lot too. Some of it pretty bad, but don't think posting it here would serve any good purpose, mine or theirs. Some groups have thrown members of their group out. The group i've been part of threw out a new member before the run ever started and I never knew that person. Other than that, our group has been cohesive, we all like each other, hang out together, communicate with each other, etc. It's really been fun. We've learned a lot.

[Alan]

I am sincerely missing the heart of this complaint. If you like the new run Jabos - then buy some if you find some that the price seem right. Don't like them? Okay - don't like them.... which I guess means you may not buy them.

Don't like culls? Then sponsor a run ($$$) and you call the shots. Give the cull to Andy Davis who makes good use of them. Don't like slightly OOR or other problem pieces? Don't buy them.

The nice thing about living in a free market economy as we do is that the market ultimately decides what the price will be. Some will sell higher - some lower. Don't like the asking price? Just like vintage - don't buy it. Don't like Jabo culls/dug Akro? Don't buy them.

Trying to tell someone who is financing a run what to produce, how to produce it and how to sell it is ridiculous. Want a say in it? Then get some skin ($$$) in the game. Don't want to do that? Then step back. Complaining about it doesn't cause the slightest impact.

For the record I have never been part of a Jabo run - but I would never presume to tell another man or woman what to do with his/her money or business. Its a matter of respect and minding one's own business.

Whats next? Government-mandated regulations on Jabo runs?

IMO, YMMV, LSMFT

[marbleus1]

No real answers.

I cant figure it.

and obviously cant pose the thought well enough to be understood.

So at this time condensed

The marbles are as a whole Horribly overpriced.

Nothing other than Mint should be allowed to leave the factory

considering the prices garnered and Quality touted.

That is not the case its buyer beware as to condition, quality and quanity to be produced.

If that adds up to more than a .50 to $10 marble under any circumstance I dont know nutt'n bout marbles

So sayeth marbleus1

[david Chamberlain]

In case it is somehow lost in this insane imbroglio I have participated financially in three runs but have examples from about 27 of the runs. I'm missing a few of the runs. I love the marbles. I have recouped some of my investment maybe all of it. My records suck! I've culled I don't know how many marbles from the more energetic runs I participated in. Not a terrible lot actually which is surprising. Anyone who knows me knows I am death on condition. I have always been proud of only offering mint or NM marbles and have been embarrassed when someone has discovered a flaw or nick in one of my marbles being offered at a show.

I'm not sure though from the previous posts if this in fact has any relevance with David's lengthy post(after post after post). But it seems to be something that people are discussing right now so I thought I'd toss my two cents worth in.

Now how this or any of my previous informational posts can be construed as vitriol is beyond me but I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone would vouch safe me the right to throw my arms up in the air and lose it over such lame treatment.

And that Dog Poop crap that Orb Boy brought up in another Thread is beyond the pale. What's with him? David

[Steph]

IMO, YMMV, LSMFT

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