Killermarbles Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 3000.00 each Sounds like its in the ball park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Bernie, Nice marbles! Any idea how metalwork (soldering, brazing, etc) can be so expertly accomplished adjacent to glass, without fracturing the glass? Hansel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Metal can easily be soldered adjacent to glass, with no fracturing of the glass, if done quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Marble Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Bernie, Nice marbles! Any idea how metalwork (soldering, brazing, etc) can be so expertly accomplished adjacent to glass, without fracturing the glass? Hansel Hansel, Good question and I have the answer after viewing with a 10x loupe. The 2 individual "circles" made of brass were made from a flat piece of stock...forged into a circle and soldered(they hid the inner circle`s solder seam). The tricky part is that the second circle HAD to be ever so slightly bigger than the firat because it is on top of the initial ring. There was considerable "fitting" to the fist AND second ring so the circle fit tight to the perimeter of the sulphide shape and tight to the first ring`s circumference. This was not an easy task and any sloppiness would result in a loose fit. The brass circles/rings were soldered together with a very low temp solder most likely a soft solder similar to the stained glass solder. Here is the next TRICKY PART................when you heat 2 same size anyhtings the temperature for both remains constant and they heat up equally.................in this case you have a large piece of glass TOUCHING 2 small pieces of metal and you HAVE to heat the glass at least to the temp of the solder flow........RISKY!!!.very risky. The larger object "SUCKS" the heat away from the smaller object so the heat has to be continued untill the glass and the metal are the same temp...These days we have super hot soldering irons but the probability of that happening is nil to none given the age of the marble and patina of the metal. I do see file marks and hammer marks from the making. I will add the closet pictures I can because this keeps getting more and more interesting as we discuss.Personally,I would never attempt this even with my years as a goldsmith. I believe inside some of these sulphides there is "stress" present and to prove this I will send a picture of a very nice sulphide that had a very tiny "stress" internal fracture...it had some sticky icky stuff on it so I was rinsing it off with room temp water and it fractured terribly right in my hand!!!!.........UUGGGHHHH>>>>>>>what a sinking feeling. I hope I cleared all questions and if not ask away and I will do my best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Marble Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Here are the closet pictures I could get of the construction and fit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The metal pieces would have to be heated at the point of soldering for the solder to flow and adhere properly, but you wouldn't have to heat all of the metal, or much of the glass, except at the soldering area. Done quickly, without lingering, isn't terribly risky. I know this from my experience making copper foiled lampshades and windows for forty years, and only rarely having a piece of glass fracture from the heat. I have also soldered rings with loops on marbles several times to make buttons, with none fracturing. That said, I sure as heck wouldn't attempt doing so on a $3000 sulphide marble, but when they were new, the risk was only a matter of a few cents, don't it ? Anyway, they are marvelous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydetul62 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 The construction looks the same as my agate. Minus your extra band. I am not sure how old the process of cold soldering is or how extensive. It could be the way they did it. I had this ring made for me. The coin is a California gold $1. Very small and very thin. The jeweler did cold solder to prevent any damage. I wanted the back open to be able to see the reverse. That's why they did the cold solder. (the crimp mark at top was already there.) I am sure Bernie is familiar with this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 That's nice, Clyde ! The California gold dollar goes very well with the quartz gold. I have a California gold octagonal quarter dollar from 1876. Teeny and way thin. (#BG778) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 well there is one thing for sure... they picked two great examples, so these are probably salesmen samples to be hung in a window display or curtain accessories like Bob suggested. Perhaps even a watch maker or jewlery maker got the pair and made them for a display... Where did you get them Bernie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn691500 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Amazing sulphides,,, in 3rd pic it almost looks as if there's a buffer between the brass and glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killermarbles Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Click clacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 *giggle* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleus1 Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 did I miss the size? "Value", is not jus a monetary equation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I would un wrap them, looks like modern work to me. If you look close, the solder is bright and shiny on the top ring mount. No way it would look that way if vintage IMO. Heck those fingers even look like they have been working with brass(LOL). And now I have looked even harder I see no surface waves and inperfections that should be seen on vintage sulphides(that have not been polished). Or a surface coloring done by a glass artist. These just scream fake to me, but then I have real good hearing.. Just my opinion and I have been wrong before, But I wouldn't buy them unless I had a few days to study them, thats a fact Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Marble Posted June 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Do you have any true vintage sulfides to compare to? I bought them as genuine vintage. They are genuine.We need a collector with a depth of knowledge. Someone who has an extensive collection.....minimum 200 sulfides........300 souls be better.......clear,colored matrix,exotic figures......animals....double figures.........even perhaps a black squirrel inside clear glass........names please!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg11 Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 how do the pontils look, the insertion point? rip them suckers open, let's check it out, verify they are not from a bulgarian carnival Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Just giving some of the needed input asked for in the tittle of the thread. Not trying to start an argument, just giving a semi-educated opinion. I have seen thousands of sulphides, studied many. Studied California sulphides and sulphides that have been covered in a colored layer. Even know a couple that have done the work. Polished marbles with many methods(for study purposes, never for anyone else or for sale) and even done quite a bit of metal work. Made quite a bit of jewelry for many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romanoak Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Well, I don't meet Bernies requirements as a sulfide collector but I do have more than a few German handmades:-). Oh, and I have actually seen these two sulfides in person. Congrats to Bernie on an incredible find. When I first saw them not a question in my mind that they were vintage and my second thought was why didn't I bid on them when I had a chance. What I can't add is any insight about the metal work. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killermarbles Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I too should have bid, I have seen them ant they are great. I forgot to bid and then Bernie had them. Congradulations to Bernie!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 where did you see them Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killermarbles Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 ebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleus1 Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 In agreement with galen, that considerable due diligence is necessary for marbles of that caliber. In the second set of pics. The third/last pic., focus is on the glass, and you begin to see what you would be looking for in "old" glass. Not a sulphide fan, those are exceptional marbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'llhavethat1 Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Curious what the soldering iron would have looked like in that era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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