Mf Christensen Red Slags

[mon]

Before the digs at MF Christensen, by design characteristics only with many having a "9"'s, many believed they made red slags. From my understanding no red glass was found and out the window went MFC as an origin.

Also my understanding was that red was very expensive to produce. Ok, I work at a place that works with gold, platinum and many more precious metals. If you were to "dig" for a sample of what was produced there 100 years or one year from the day the doors close, you would not find any of these metals.

Could they had put the same energy into reclaiming red glass? Could they have stored the red glass scrap in one location with the practice/hopes of reuse that was not unearthed?

What is the largest red slag you know of? Would they use an expensive glass to make one 1 3/8" slag or 8-9 5/8" slags? I'm probable way off base with this logic but thought I would ask. Thanks

[Steph]

There was an ad which appeared to be confirmation for the existence of red MFC slags, but the reference to red almost certainly meant the American Cornelian (AKA bricks) since that was such an important part of their line and wasn't mentioned on the ad. Someone may have tried to save a little bit of advertising money and caused confusion by shortening the long name.

[ann]

Before the digs at MF Christensen, by design characteristics only with many having a "9"'s, many believed they made red slags. From my understanding no red glass was found and out the window went MFC as an origin.

Could they had put the same energy into reclaiming red glass? Could they have stored the red glass scrap in one location with the practice/hopes of reuse that was not unearthed?

In addition to the digs, Michael Cahill's book on MFC (and he owns the MFC company's archives, including glass formulas, production notes, and samples of all the marbles they produced, etc.) also says "no red glass." I also think MFC "oxblood" was wrongly equated with MFC "red" in the early days of trying to figure this stuff out. As Steph suggested, (side note = in Henry Hellmers' batch book he sets out the formulas for MFC oxblood / carnelian that were brought from MFC to Akro Agate by that scoundrel Horace C. Hill.)

I also understand gold red was both expensive and difficult to produce. Henry Hellmers at Akro mostly used selenium for transparent red. It was apparently less difficult to work with than gold, although not necessarily much less expensive, and I've seen some references to Hellmers being the glass chemist credited with making selenium "practical" to use in an "industrial" setting. He also has about 35 formulas for what he calls "copper ruby," mostly using "red copper oxide."

And Peltier developed and produced the "cerise," their first red slag, using selenium, according to what I've seen. But there might be earlier formulas I don't know about. Yet.

But for your gold-reclaiming question, mon, it doesn't look like there would have been enough gold involved for the effort. But I could be wrong. I'm no good at the economics of anything. You judge: Hellmers has 50 formulas for "gold ruby" and the amounts of metallic gold or gold chloride used vary from about 17 ounces down to measurements in grains, all in formulas that start with "First you take 1,000 pounds of sand . . ."

I wish I knew exactly who made those few nice small red slags I have that LOOK like they should be MFC (Those nice nines! Those tails!) They don't look like the cerises at all, and most Akro slags don't seem to have any signature -- certainly no nice nines. Maybe it was just one anti-establishment type at Akro or something. Who didn't keep his job for very long!

[mon]

Thanks Steph and Ann,

Ann, I didn't mean the reclaiming of gold but the reuse of any/all scrap. With it mixed once with white could it be added to the next batch in portions as not to effect any marbles negatively?

I don't know diddly squat of the elements needed to make any colors so, can you explain if the production of oxblood would cost more, less or the around the same as transparent red? Also. opinions why would they did not make red? thanks

[lstmmrbls]

i think CAC made some fantastic red hand gathered slags

[winnie]

If it's possible i would really like to see those red slags with a nice nine and tail.

[mon]

Winnie, this one was on the bay and made me think about it and was titled MFC. Pics are from e-bay and are small.

[mon]

Maybe this pic is better........nine and tail

[greg11]

you will find red slags with 9's but they do not have the MFC cut lines, if they do its a fluke. Can you imagine if MFC made big 1-1/4 red slags, that would have been awesome

[mon]

How would MFC differ from CAC as to the shearing off the glob from the punty on a hand gathered slag? I honestly I'm not arguing the point but have mixed feelings on the supported reason to make it an absolute. Just think how many slags in other colors are ID'ed as MFC and may be CAC.

1 1/4" red slag would be something to see for sure!! What is the largest red slag that you know of? Thanks for entertaining my questions.

[BuckEye]

Ron had a big red slag slightly over an inch. I never saw one that big. Cac made crazy nice hg red slags. They are one of my favorites. I have quite a few 3/4"-7/8" ones

[winnie]

Thats a nice one Mon,i'm curious about the maker.

I don't have red transp- slags,i've #1 Japanese one, which is more red translucent.

[I'llhavethat1]

If it's possible i would really like to see those red slags with a nice nine and tail.

Here are a couple red slags in different sizes. Although I don't remember actual measurements

[winnie]

Thank,those are fine examples,actually the maker is unknown??

[prospector]

Heres a few collected over the years,Ive never came across anything over 7/8,But i only have 50 or so,so...I also think its highly plausible that all the red cullet/scrap was recycled,They(red slags) are so seldom seen,I even hoard the halfs and damaged ones i find..

[Steph]

look at those nines!

[lstmmrbls]

Quite a few Foreign slags in that great group IMO.

And to back up the no Red Slags from MFC, if anyone is lucky enough to get the MFC book I do not believe you will not find any reference to red slags in the paperwork mentioned.

[mon]

I see three. Or, maybe they only made them in the beginning and paperwork was not logged/kept the same way. Maybe they ran out of TP in the office outhouse..lol. Really, it could be lots of things, who knows. If slags were to mimic agates/onyx (expensive and most desired at this time) and red being the prominent color, why would they completely omit this effort. Did any early collector get confirmation from MFC employees?

I have been fondling all of my hand gathered slags and can't find any "signs" between the red and other colored ones.

What are the cutline differences between a MFC and CAC hand gathered slags?

[lstmmrbls]

I think it may have been a combination of things, mostly expense and knowledge of a good inexpensive recipe for red. As an example are there many(or any?) transparent red handgathered ground pontils from Germany or any red transparent Leighton melted pontil types?

On handgathered Slags not a whole lot of difference in cutlines. And you did get me to read the book again (Thanks Michael Cohill for a great publication). and did see reference to red in regards to the Oxblood marbles

Of course I would never state with 100% assurance that some transparent red marbles did not exit the MFC building. It is certainly possible. (but not probable) IMO.

[mon]

I was going to ask the same thing about the ground or melted pontils because I don't know but it had to start somewhere. I don't have that book, does Cohill state the fact of no red slags?

[mibstified]

My slags shooter box with some red slags. Smallest mib in the box is 3/4" so think a few reds are ~7/8".

[winnie]

Maybe that beautiful group of red transp- slags from Prospector are Canadian??

I remember Roger has some of them.

[lstmmrbls]

I think some are of that type.

[BuckEye]

Mon,

Mf was very meticulous. In the book it shows the types of onyx marbles produced, the size the color and how many. If you have a 1 7/8" Amber you can figure out which pair of workman made the marble and the day. It gives production dates of when each marble was produced or began to be produced to the day. Ex. It tells when they made purple slags which was only for like a year and white was made right before then. There is a section on how they made bricks for a month or so and it gave the size snd number produced each day on that run.......so I think they would have mentioned red slags. Cohill has all the company paperwork. You need that book lol

[mon]

Thanks and I guess I do! So, would you agree that any "9" 7/8" and under, minus all red and colors known to be only CAC, is a crap shoot as to origin? I wish your detailed post would have been 2nd! lol...... Thanks Craig