budwas Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 After having read Winnie's wire pull thread about three times and enjoying all the pictures everyone posted I'm wondering about the history of wire pulls. How far back do they go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManofKent Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 1 hour ago, budwas said: After having read Winnie's wire pull thread about three times and enjoying all the pictures everyone posted I'm wondering about the history of wire pulls. How far back do they go? Good question - I've no idea. From the packages and solitaire sets they appeared in within the UK I think Veiligglas's production may have been at it's height in the 50's through to late 60's. Other European companies may have produced them - I've seen references to Hopf a German maker/distributor from the late 60's but know nothing about them. Champion produced some swirls that could be described as wirepulls, and I suspect other WV makers did too, but whether they were intentionally made as wirepulls or just happened not to touch I don't know... Someone with more knowledge than me might know whether they were made as transitionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 I traced back through some of Winnie's other threads and found this gem: "The manufacturing of marbles took place from about 1949 up to about 1960/62." That's straight from the son of the man who was the managing director of Veiligglas. http://marbleconnection.com/topic/15635-dutch-marbles-roll-over-the-globe/?do=findComment&comment=142208 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Very good info, thank you all. I have a yellow one, 1" or so that appears to be transitional. I'll post a pic later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Is anybody around who can post some wire pulls they know are Champion? I don't know what distinguished them from Veiligglas, except I think I've read that they were smaller . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 It's 13/16" difficult to get a decent picture with my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 This picture is the right color. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Not a transitional. That would be a cold roll of some sort. Is it even a swirl with one continuous ribbon of yellow? The color and softness of the ribbon (and the size) make me wonder if it might turn out to be a Vitro cat eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 It is not one continuous ribbon but much like the yellow marble in the first picture in Winnie's thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted June 28, 2016 Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 39 minutes ago, budwas said: It is not one continuous ribbon but much like the yellow marble in the first picture in Winnie's thread. Needs to be one continuous ribbon to be considered a wire pull . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2016 Are you girls just messing with me? Bud tapping foot on the floor. The first pic is Ann"s from Winnie's string. Now be honest Ann, is that one continuous ribbon? The second pic is from marble collecting site. And a perfect match to mine. It's under transitional marbles. Steph??? Are you giggling because now I'm so confused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Not giggling! Promise! I don't know exactly what causes that mark. I used to think maybe it was a nozzle mark, but it might be from where two marbles got stuck together. If they touch and then start to separate but their glass gets stretched out a little as they're pulling apart, then it might cause a mark like that as it gets flattened back down on the rollers. Also, the twisting might come from it getting hung up on the machinery. Wirepulls ARE one continuous ribbon. Wirepulls are swirls made from a fine stream of glass which folds back and forth on itself -- to the best of my knowledge. A cat's eye gets its multiple ribbons by a different method. All the ribbons are squirted in at once -- to the best of my knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Ok, thank you for taking the time to explain and thanks for putting up with me. I've been reading and searching so much trying to learn so I can stand on my own two feet. I have collected marbles for a long time but only because I liked them. Now it's a learning thing and I'm finding the learning curve is steep. But I love it! Thanks again to everyone Bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Not so sure that is correct info on that picture you posted from marblecollecting.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 I know it's hard to believe, but yes, it's one continuous ribbon! And going at the speed you're going, it won't be long until you too are one of those crazy people who -- just to make sure -- start at one end and follow it to the other! As for the "transitional" from the marble site (and I haven't tried to find it yet), I honestly don't see the main characteristics I look for when looking for transitionals. Judging from just that one photo, all I see is a slag that may have gotten hung up on the rollers, as Steph suggested, The other side of the marble may have a clue to what it is (a pontil or cut / shear mark), but based on that one view, I don't think the term transitional would even come into my mind. And the fact that we are not messin' with you right now does not mean we will not be messin' with you in the future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Ann, I would really like to spend a day with you. Starting with coffee outside at a picnic table, cool morning, sun shining bright, four bags of marbles, jewelers loop, paper plate with steaming hot brownies and nothing else to do all day but play marbles with a new friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 21 hours ago, ann said: Is anybody around who can post some wire pulls they know are Champion? I don't know what distinguished them from Veiligglas, except I think I've read that they were smaller . . . Good question Ann,actually I don't know exact what distinguished Champion wire from Veiligglas wire-,sure want to know,also want to know when Champion started to make wirepull's,I've never seen Champion wire pull's in original nets or boxes. Maybe time for a new thread,Champion agate wirepull versus Veiligglas wirepull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Oregon Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Someone posted this picture back in 1999 that they called Champion Wirepulls. That's the only picture that I have labeled as a Champion wirepull. I'll look through some of my other Champion examples and packaging to see if I can find any others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Closing Argument The jury may be seated Exibit #1 clearly shows that the marble in question is in fact a hand gathered marble with a clockwise twist. It has long stretched bubbles spiraling in a 360 degree pattern, much like a Josephs coat. Unlike a machine made marble with a cold roll mark and cut lines, the marble in question has no cut lines in the surface, clear base glass or the opaque yellow as shown in exibit #2. Thus, the marble in question has all the traits of a transitional marble, that being hand gathered glass finished by mechanical rolling. It's my opinion that the punty had cooled the glass at the point of contact thus creating a difference in viscosity and leaving the most beautiful example of a pontil I've ever witnessed. I humbly ask the jury to carefully examine exibits 1 and 2 prior to returning your verdict. Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Exibit #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ann Posted June 29, 2016 Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Nah. Hey, I'm already out here at the picnic table, where you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budwas Posted June 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2016 Ahhh, I'm about 70 miles west of Prudhoe bay Alaska, 10 more miles north and i would fall off the edge of the world. So wish I was there instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'llhavethat1 Posted June 30, 2016 Report Share Posted June 30, 2016 If there is a hand gathered, handmade, or cane cut marble like the one 4th one above I've never seen another like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted July 2, 2016 Report Share Posted July 2, 2016 Absolutely not a hand gathered artifact. It is a machine made defect. Glass got pulled out then pushed back in. Often called nipples it is a fairly common defect often confused by new collectors for a pontil mark. Machine made swirls do not have cutlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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