Scott Patrick's Kingly Line?

[Steph]

Scott's friend Martin posted this in Scott's memorial thread.  I figured I should ask about it in the general chat.  Does anyone have any information about the Kingly Line?  Pictures of it?  Knowledge of who owns any?  Thanks.

 

1 hour ago, Mbowling said:

Hello all! I'm in search of a particular Scott Patrick marble! Actually it's a group of incredible onions w/lutz in clear and amber glass.  Scott called them the "Kingly line". About a dozen of them were made at 7/8 and perhaps as large as 1 inch. Along with this group a clear aqua blue cloud was sold along with the "Kingly line" around the same size maybe even 1.25inch! Scott told me that these went straight into someones collection when I asked about them years later.  We both agreed that those were the best marbles he ever made in that style and size and I had the honor to be his helper during this time so these mibs hold a very special meaning to me. I would be interested in acquiring them of course but I would be happy to at least gaze upon them once more! So If you have any information as to who olds this most outstanding marbles you will EVER lay your eyes on PERIOD bar none let me know please and post pics asap if you are able to do so!

 

Thanks in advance,

Martin B

 

[Steph]

I have a lutz onionskin he made, but mine would be a late-era marble.  It is from 2013. 

[Ric]

No lutz, but I've got this one with mica, although it may be even a little later than yours.

[Mbowling]

Those pics posted are all great Scott Patrick Marbles! Absolute killers. But these are not the ones im looking for sadly..

 

Thanks for posting the pics folks!

 

-Martin B.

[hdesousa]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:46 AM, Steph said:

Scott's friend Martin posted this in Scott's memorial thread.  I figured I should ask about it in the general chat.  Does anyone have any information about the Kingly Line?  Pictures of it?  Knowledge of who owns any?  Thanks.

 

 

Is this what you're looking for?

[hdesousa]

Scott was a master forger with a conscience, which I discovered when he told me a medal/watch fob I had just bought on eBay was a reproduction.

Here's some more of his work.  His colored glass sulphides could fool most, as he started out with a genuine German sulphide and covered it with colored glass.   The partially covered blue bear in the upper left gives you an idea of the tedious process; it was difficult to keep the marbles from cracking, he said.

[Alan]

4 hours ago, hdesousa said:

Scott was a master forger with a conscience, which I discovered when he told me a medal/watch fob I had just bought on eBay was a reproduction.

 

I agree that Scott was a forger.  I never saw any of his work that reflected mastery - and I never knew Scott to care much about mastery.  I also never saw Scott (I knew him, spent time with him a fair numbers of times, bought some of his so-so fakes a few times) as having a conscience.  In fact I believe that Scott absolutely reveled in stirring-the-pot by creating fakes that caused issues in the hobby.  That seemed to be his greatest reward.  He sold most of his work very cheaply - some at a break-even cost of gas and glass.  His hyper-arguements with people were things of legends.  Old timers here remember him being banned here for cause, starting his own website to continue arguments and attacks with language and the most awful things said about people's family members imaginable.

Selling Peltier NLR fakes for $3.00 is telling.

[TheVacorFan]

Doesn't sound like a nice person if I'm honest...

[Steph]

It's complicated.  He could be plenty nice.  He ended his shock-jock website and reached out to some of the people that he had hurt the worst with the insults there.  For example, he apologized to Edna Eaton and as far as I know she felt he was sincere and accepted the apology.   

Life dealt him some serious blows in his later years and  I think he handled them with humility and dignity.  

 

[Shamrock Marbles]

5 hours ago, Alan said:

I agree that Scott was a forger.  I never saw any of his work that reflected mastery - and I never knew Scott to care much about mastery.  I also never saw Scott (I knew him, spent time with him a fair numbers of times, bought some of his so-so fakes a few times) as having a conscience.  In fact I believe that Scott absolutely reveled in stirring-the-pot by creating fakes that caused issues in the hobby.  That seemed to be his greatest reward.  He sold most of his work very cheaply - some at a break-even cost of gas and glass.  His hyper-arguements with people were things of legends.  Old timers here remember him being banned here for cause, starting his own website to continue arguments and attacks with language and the most awful things said about people's family members imaginable.

Selling Peltier NLR fakes for $3.00 is telling.

Alan is spot on.  If one was to research what a sociopath is - Scott Patrick was the poster child.  Scott reveled in pointing out the ignorance of the base collector society.

Don’t forget that Scott had superior skills.  The shame was not preventing people from being duped, but he enjoyed watching collectors tripped up in their poor judgment.

Now, there were a few contemporary “collaborators” that supported and encouraged Scott with his peripheral behavior. These (This) person(s) would like to rewrite their past behavior.

Sociopathy can be found in all societal segments. Marbles are no exception. Be warned on all posts.

[hdesousa]

9 hours ago, Shamrock Marbles said:

Alan is spot on.  If one was to research what a sociopath is - Scott Patrick was the poster child.  Scott reveled in pointing out the ignorance of the base collector society.

Don’t forget that Scott had superior skills.  The shame was not preventing people from being duped, but he enjoyed watching collectors tripped up in their poor judgment.

Now, there were a few contemporary “collaborators” that supported and encouraged Scott with his peripheral behavior. These (This) person(s) would like to rewrite their past behavior.

Sociopathy can be found in all societal segments. Marbles are no exception. Be warned on all posts.

No one is trying to rewrite history.  Everything Alan, Steph and you say about Scott is true. But since De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est,  I'm trying to illustrate some of his 'superior skills'.     Fakes/forgeries/reproductions etc exist in practically every collectable hobby and the key to protecting collectors is to educate them by publicizing the mimics.  It's interesting that the only two marble makers who have physically threatened me for wanting to do so are Scott (over his adding oxblood to akro marbles) and you, when I wanted to point out the similarities between shamrock marbles and Christensen exotics.

[Shamrock Marbles]

13 hours ago, hdesousa said:

No one is trying to rewrite history.  Everything Alan, Steph and you say about Scott is true. But since De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est,  I'm trying to illustrate some of his 'superior skills'.     Fakes/forgeries/reproductions etc exist in practically every collectable hobby and the key to protecting collectors is to educate them by publicizing the mimics.  It's interesting that the only two marble makers who have physically threatened me for wanting to do so are Scott (over his adding oxblood to akro marbles) and you, when I wanted to point out the similarities between shamrock marbles and Christensen exotics.

LOL!  You don't speak ill of the dead, but here you state that Scott threatened you.  Shame he can't defend himself.  You just fell off your high horse.

Oh, by the way, Scott threatened many people over the years.  You aren't that special.

***

Over the past 20 years on the boards, I can't recall one informative post from you that talks about how to identify real or reproduction marbles or medals.  When doing your posts, I notice how you don't elaborate on any backstory or your possible connection/involvement.  You have a lot of knowledge, let it flow...

***

Let's fly back to March 2005.  You visited the KC Marble Crazy show still hot and bothered by the CA "Exotics" on Baumann's latest book.  You were adamant these were fakes.

You saw me demonstrate my "Genesis" marble machine at Moon Marble.  You asked lots of questions.  I gave lots of answers.  You even bought marbles from me.  You really liked digging through my $1 box.

You saw Chris Robinson's refurbished machine that he made his Road & Tunnel marbles on.  You watched Chris demo a marble at the glory hole.  You talked with other artists.

But you had a motive.  Do you remember that motive?  Do you wish to share your "plan"?

I can vividly remember my anger at you.  I made it clear that I was not going to be complicit with your activity nor be a quiet spectator.

About a year or so later, you came to my room at the Columbus Show to look at the collaboration marbles Chris and I did at his shop.  You went right for the Christmas Tree marble.  Good eye.

Well, with that out.  What have you been up to?

[hdesousa]

You say, giving me undeserved credit,  "You have a lot of knowledge, let it flow... ".  I am pretty much unable to distinguish a well made fake glass marble from the original;  actually, I developed a reputation for having more dollars than sense.  That's why I tend to collect glass marbles in labeled, original boxes with a good provenance. 

You say "I can't recall one informative post from you that talks about how to identify real or reproduction marbles or medals".  There are others much better skilled and qualified to do that on the boards - I tried several other ways to educate collectors - mostly by buying mimics from the source and reselling online, described as such.  But that backfires when the marbles get resold as rare and genuine, e.g. a $20 one inch red road and tunnel slag for several hundred dollars, or a $40 green glass eagle sulphide as a German antique, for several thousand dollars, or $40 sets of forty Chinese handmade marbles (with Marble Alan's cooperation) resold as German swirls.

Sending Mark Chervenka of Antique & Collectors Reproduction News a group of genuine and repro medals, as well as contributing information on California sulphides, from which he published a couple excellent articles, may be my most effective "educational" contribution.

I have a fairly large collection of modern reproductions.  This thread was originally from Steph on behalf of Martin Bowling looking for some of Scott Patrick's onion lutzes.  I had a few.  I also have every shamrock marble bought from you - your $1 marbles were just as useful to me as your regular priced marbles - I obviously was not buying defective (or regular priced) marbles to fool anyone.  But am still scratching my head as to why you got so upset when I told you my intention of selling (your better marbles) on eBay, especially after you'd spent the better part of the day expertly demonstrating your machinery and how exotics are made.

Finally, you ask "What have you been up to? ".  The answer is not much.  Been out of touch with the repro world for probably a decade; with some exceptions, one being a box of Kelly Schmidt guineas, at least half of which I cannot tell from a genuine guinea, but continue to examine them, to educate myself as well as to admire them.

 

[I'llhavethat1]

So, I'm curious if these 'Kingly Line' marbles were also made individually, on a torch?

[akroorka]

16 hours ago, Shamrock Marbles said:

What have you been up to?

 

4 hours ago, hdesousa said:

The answer is not much.

This is a great thread, let’s keep it great.
You both have so much to offer. 
The newest generation of collector’s are like deer in the headlights trying to figure out what you are talking about.
Consider a truce and get together to inform the new collectors of what the older collectables were—they are coming back sadly, because no one lives forever.
The old collectables will become the new if the information is shared in a professional manner. 
You are both pros and respected in your own right.
Like I said, you both have so much to offer—let’s get it on!
Patience gets thin with age—not me—it just gets better. I am a great grandpa almost three times (next month makes three)
Share what you know—just be nice is all that I ask. 
Treat us all like kids and explain what you would know as if to a seven year old.
Thanks for all that you both have done for the community over the years and of course—
Marble—On!!
 

[Carowill]

👍 Right on, Art!

[Caterpillar]

4 hours ago, akroorka said:

Share what you know—just be nice is all that I ask. 

Well said!

[Fire1981]

I miss him🔥

RAR

[Fire1981]

I was thinking where is Slaggy May/Mae? If I remember right they were a couple. Talk about a WWF Marble Smack Down Tag Team 🤪   She said if we ever meet face to face she’d slap me in my face. LOL ! I asked her if it was going to be across my face or a backhand🤪. I told her I get one if his marbles if I give you the chance. I don’t know if she has anymore interest in marbles. I just have a feeling she was there for a large majority of the time he was making marbles. I think she probably has a very good account when he made these as well as all of his cutting edge work🔥

RAR