Steph

p.s. check out the bottom gift box. ... edit: moving my way off topic comment. lol

That's some nice detail. It should spawn a lot of discussion, maybe for years to come. lol Moss Agates are mentioned/shown on all three pages, but with seeming contradictions. Like where the swirly moss description is on the same page as a picture of a box of moss patches. It's an example of one of their patchwork ads. It has a mixture of old and new elements. And some errors, possibly partly due to the disconnect between the people writing the ad and the people who knew the inventory best. But it is still a fabulous source of info if you're patient enough to iron out the wrinkles. LOL.

Those ringers are beauts! I don't see popeye-lites though. I see MORE. I see translucent glass in addition to the clear and wispy white. When people in the past have posted mibs and asked "is this a ringer?", I've said "no" because I saw the translucent glass. Now I think the translucent glass belongs. Gorgeous examples, Craig. Thanks for sharing.

The Ringer is a collectors' name, not an Akro name. It is supposedly based on what has been found in Ringer Marble Set boxes. My mention of it today was a platform to discuss what is actually found in those boxes. I don't use the term Snake. It is not an Akro name as far as I know. The term Onyx is an Akro name, and I use it appropriately, as far as I know. I give up talking about the clear glass. I don't agree with what you think would "follow". Sorry you don't think I'm being consistent enough. I've already admitted to picking and choosing what to take with me from different descriptions. However, I happen to believe I choose intelligently, taking a large body of information into consideration. Some people have more information than I do but I have a lot. I have no reason to doubt that the swirly moss agate box is filled correctly. I would have to throw out a lot of evidence if I restricted conclusions about swirly/corky moss agates to what I see in a patch box. Akro's ad writers were not looking at plain patches when they described Moss Agates as "... the most beautiful marble Akro Agate has ever produced. Highest quality moonstone glass, soft pastel colors contrasted with more vivid hues in exquisite patterns - pale green with maroon, cream with deep blue, etc. ..." No hard feelings. I just believe it would be walking backward to toss out the information that box gives us.

Yeas, that's what I've been saying. That's where Dani and I have had a difference of opinion, but that's what I have been saying. The box? Which box? Did you see the blue and yellow ones in the box on the front page? Oh and there is one peeking out of the box above also. Do those count? One Akro ad for moss agates mentions pale green with maroon. I'd like to see that! But maybe I already have - perhaps the "maroon" was oxblood.

yum!

Not sure why you bring up the lack of clear. Was that because Ringers are said to have clear? If you go with the traditional collectors' description of Ringers then yours would not be one. Whether it had clear or not. The translucent base would sink you. If your mind is open about the moss agate option, then clear is not an integral part of the marble, as far as I understand. Yes it shows up a lot in the swirly ones but I don't think it's a requirement. But if I'm wrong altogether about your cork even being related to the swirly mosses then nevermind. I have to go back to my cave and regroup. LOLOL

hehe. you have a point.

Yah, somewhere between a swirl and a clearie. Don't know if this is one of their colors but Champ did a lot like that. Not one of the money mibs. :-)

Yup, Ann. The "traditional" one is what you and Charles said. Short-changed Popeye. Clear base, wispy white, one color. Popeye-Lite. But did Akro make those on purpose? I wanna see more pix of them. LOL. It's been so hard to find any "true", "traditional" ones, that this alone might cause suspicion about them being a regular item to put in the Ringer Marble Sets. The subject comes up with some frequency. Someone asks, "Is this a ringer?" The typical answer is "no". The standard verbal description is given for them. But then it's rare that anyone can come up with a pic of a "real" one. Why are they so hard to find? Bubba, I'd be tempted to call yours a ringer, by my new understanding. I'd feel safer calling it a moss agate since that is my best guess for what Akro woulda called it. But it does look like the style which often seems to come in ringer boxes. It's a most excellent marble, no matter what. It's too bad it doesn't have a really good name. A name we could all agree on (lol), and then get past, so that we would be free to ooh and aah the mib.

oh man oh man. Dani's gonna murderize me.

Bill, about your cork here: I think that some collectors might i.d. it as a Ringer. This is SUCH a controversial i.d. but I'm starting to buy it. It fits for a number of reasons. For one, translucent mibs seem to appear so often in Ringer Marble Sets such as Lloyd's here. Are they all backfilled? (click to enlarge) . . For another reason, it seems really hard to find examples of "true" ringers (by the traditional definition). Why aren't there more in circulation? Of course there are still dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of collectors who will stand by the traditional definition. One of the very few "traditional" ones I've ever seen even in a photo (from ebay):

Thanks Dani for taking a generous interpretation! We do agree on the key points of the moss vs. Ace divide but we still disagree about moss corks. And you're going to want to throw a shoe at me for the thread I'm about to start. I know it. A heavy, steel-toed, size 17, studded work boot. I beg for forgiveness in advance! !

Our understanding of the subject continues to be refined. I believe there is an archived thread, started intentionally as a myth buster, but ironically I think it still contains some errors. It might yet be awhile before it all gets nailed down. Dani and I are two of the main online advocates of a more rigorous undertanding of Aces, but as you see she and I don't even see eye to eye on all of the related material.

Here's something which I don't think is understood perfectly: When were the swiry/corky moss agates made? When were the patch moss agates made? I think it's generally thought that the swirly ones stopped being made very early. But I think they may have overlapped. Didn't the moss agate patches start by 1934? Possibly before 1934, even? Yet the swirly moss agates were being sold into 1935, and maybe 1936, maybe later. Here's a Jan. 1935 ad. I've also seen a 1936 popeye ad which looks like it might have some mossy swirls. And we've seen them in Popeye boxes. (click to enlarge) Jan. 1935 -- Visi Paks Live and in color:

Specials update: I have lost track now of how many boxes or compartments I've seen labeled However, I do have a copy of an Akro pricelist which at least partially explains why the contents of an "Akro Special" box would be all over the place. This is from a 1933 jobbers price list which George Sourlis sent me: (click to enlarge) I still haven't seen any evidence that Special ever referred to one particular type of marble. It just makes sense to me that the Specials compartment in the salesman case would be for mibs which weren't part of the main selection but Akro still wanted people to know about - such as popeyes, carnelians or other unusual corks! (click to enlarge) And we definitely know that at one point at least, Akro called 3-color corks "tri-color agates", as seen on the catalog page below. So did they ever change over to calling those specific marbles Specials? Or did the tradition of calling them Specials come about in modern times? (click to enlarge)

izn't he the cutest thing.

Oh dang, I deserve a thrashing for leaving out Bo's mibs. Time to quit trying to acknowledge them all and just watch for awhile!

Ooo, glowage. Those are some nice blacklight pix. And that ghost cork is sweet. lol. Thanks Alan. Gorgeous as always. I'm not falling for the popeye tho'. Did you make that one, Scott?

Gee whiz Winnie, my heart skipped a beat when I saw the popeye! Then I read what you said and was able to catch my breath! lol. very nice array!

oooooeeeeey! Onyx? (white cork inside?)

What marbles did Akro make in the one-inch version? Would love to see yours! Thanks! (edit: obviously I know of some styles which were made as 1-inchers but there are some I'm not sure about. would love to see examples in any case :-)

lol. Dani and I don't always have to agree either. :-) I'm still inclined to believe your cork is a moss agate, Bill. Lemonades, limeades, blue eggyolks, etc. are moss agates. But whether I'm right on that one or not, Dani and I are still together on not calling just any translucent mib an Ace. If it doesn't have a name, then I guess it doesn't.

It might not be worth it if you need to sell marbles for a profit in a small amount of time. But if you do have the time, it can be fun. Not that many winners to be found, but/and/so when you find them it is very cool.

Don't take the narrow definition. Take what is. That sounds flippant but it's serious. Trying to define Aces with words, and trying to take Akro's ad writers' version of the description too literally, rules out some true Aces and might seem to force non-Aces into the category. There are some known examples of Aces. Using those to identify other Aces is better than trying to use words. In my humble opinion. Actually, the marble you are showing looks very much like a Moss Agate. I think that's what it is. As well as I can tell from a small photo. Moss Agates come in corks and patches. (and in swirls which may or may not be loose corks). (p.s., your popeye is not a moss agate.) Oh don't get me started on Specials! LOL I won't go there. (not in this thread )