Steph

Bill, about your cork here: I think that some collectors might i.d. it as a Ringer. This is SUCH a controversial i.d. but I'm starting to buy it. It fits for a number of reasons. For one, translucent mibs seem to appear so often in Ringer Marble Sets such as Lloyd's here. Are they all backfilled? (click to enlarge) . . For another reason, it seems really hard to find examples of "true" ringers (by the traditional definition). Why aren't there more in circulation? Of course there are still dozens (hundreds? thousands?) of collectors who will stand by the traditional definition. One of the very few "traditional" ones I've ever seen even in a photo (from ebay):

Thanks Dani for taking a generous interpretation! We do agree on the key points of the moss vs. Ace divide but we still disagree about moss corks. And you're going to want to throw a shoe at me for the thread I'm about to start. I know it. A heavy, steel-toed, size 17, studded work boot. I beg for forgiveness in advance! !

Our understanding of the subject continues to be refined. I believe there is an archived thread, started intentionally as a myth buster, but ironically I think it still contains some errors. It might yet be awhile before it all gets nailed down. Dani and I are two of the main online advocates of a more rigorous undertanding of Aces, but as you see she and I don't even see eye to eye on all of the related material.

Here's something which I don't think is understood perfectly: When were the swiry/corky moss agates made? When were the patch moss agates made? I think it's generally thought that the swirly ones stopped being made very early. But I think they may have overlapped. Didn't the moss agate patches start by 1934? Possibly before 1934, even? Yet the swirly moss agates were being sold into 1935, and maybe 1936, maybe later. Here's a Jan. 1935 ad. I've also seen a 1936 popeye ad which looks like it might have some mossy swirls. And we've seen them in Popeye boxes. (click to enlarge) Jan. 1935 -- Visi Paks Live and in color:

Specials update: I have lost track now of how many boxes or compartments I've seen labeled However, I do have a copy of an Akro pricelist which at least partially explains why the contents of an "Akro Special" box would be all over the place. This is from a 1933 jobbers price list which George Sourlis sent me: (click to enlarge) I still haven't seen any evidence that Special ever referred to one particular type of marble. It just makes sense to me that the Specials compartment in the salesman case would be for mibs which weren't part of the main selection but Akro still wanted people to know about - such as popeyes, carnelians or other unusual corks! (click to enlarge) And we definitely know that at one point at least, Akro called 3-color corks "tri-color agates", as seen on the catalog page below. So did they ever change over to calling those specific marbles Specials? Or did the tradition of calling them Specials come about in modern times? (click to enlarge)

izn't he the cutest thing.

Oh dang, I deserve a thrashing for leaving out Bo's mibs. Time to quit trying to acknowledge them all and just watch for awhile!

Ooo, glowage. Those are some nice blacklight pix. And that ghost cork is sweet. lol. Thanks Alan. Gorgeous as always. I'm not falling for the popeye tho'. Did you make that one, Scott?

Gee whiz Winnie, my heart skipped a beat when I saw the popeye! Then I read what you said and was able to catch my breath! lol. very nice array!

oooooeeeeey! Onyx? (white cork inside?)

What marbles did Akro make in the one-inch version? Would love to see yours! Thanks! (edit: obviously I know of some styles which were made as 1-inchers but there are some I'm not sure about. would love to see examples in any case :-)

lol. Dani and I don't always have to agree either. :-) I'm still inclined to believe your cork is a moss agate, Bill. Lemonades, limeades, blue eggyolks, etc. are moss agates. But whether I'm right on that one or not, Dani and I are still together on not calling just any translucent mib an Ace. If it doesn't have a name, then I guess it doesn't.

It might not be worth it if you need to sell marbles for a profit in a small amount of time. But if you do have the time, it can be fun. Not that many winners to be found, but/and/so when you find them it is very cool.

Don't take the narrow definition. Take what is. That sounds flippant but it's serious. Trying to define Aces with words, and trying to take Akro's ad writers' version of the description too literally, rules out some true Aces and might seem to force non-Aces into the category. There are some known examples of Aces. Using those to identify other Aces is better than trying to use words. In my humble opinion. Actually, the marble you are showing looks very much like a Moss Agate. I think that's what it is. As well as I can tell from a small photo. Moss Agates come in corks and patches. (and in swirls which may or may not be loose corks). (p.s., your popeye is not a moss agate.) Oh don't get me started on Specials! LOL I won't go there. (not in this thread )

Some are worth a few bux. Some can be worth significantly more than a "few" bux. Handmade ones. Hand-gathered ones. Akro flinties and moonies. Some special Masters. Maybe someone could think of others. But it can be tough to ID the good ones. Hard to describe them. Hard to ID them in pix. And not generally worth the postage to mail them anywhere for ID unless you're really sure you're onto something. It's an activity for leisure time, I think, to sort through them. Not good odds of finding anything worth money. I've found some good ones just because I liked opaques and clearies for their own sakes, and I looked at them in different lights and then occasionally something stood out which I hadn't noticed before. Oh yes, the ones which light up nicely under UV can be worth something to the right people. I had good luck selling those on ebay. To vaseline glass collectors more than to vintage marble collectors. Wavy lines? As in transparent swirls?

Sorry Bill, I must disagree. The Ace has gotta have fire. The catalog page I posted isn't all of the Akro styles ever made. The Moss Agate corks aren't on that page. Carnelians aren't there. At least some of the mibs distributed in Imperial boxes aren't there. Tri-Onyx Agates aren't there - not that those have a translucent base but I'm on a roll. lol But anyway, the Ace is "opalescent". There are some corks which I can't place with a name. But I'm not ready to chuck mystery marbles into the Ace heading. When all the translucent mibs get lumped together, that shortchanges Aces. Edit: lol, did you add the moss agate question while I wasn't looking? Yes, some of the translucent base corks are moss agates. How many different color combos? That would be fun learning about. If that's possible.

lol. yeah that picture bugs me too. but it is pretty funny considering.

Nice find on the site, Pat. Cool images there.

Another pic of Dani's, another black one, more tightly filled again.

Here's Dani's pic of a loosely filled Ace.

the ones Charles shows? Do you mean Dave's mibs? I'm not sure about those actually. I'd want to see them in hand. He does have them in hand, so I'll take his word on them. Except for the plain one? The ribbon colors on his look right. The top right view of his black one has an Ace-like hint of rosiness. And check it out, the base of the black one has a grain like a Realer. Thanks bunches for paying such close attention to the ad's words! LOL. I find that phrase frustrating - "a narrow, distinct strip of opalescent glass". Actually, I suspect the ad writers viewed the base as a "strip". In this one it's sorta hard to tell whether the red or the white is the ribbon. hmmm. Anyway, the ad writers were sometimes more poetic than accurate. I sorta pick and choose what to take literally with them. The main concept I take from this ad is the word "opalescent". There are some other Ace features I think I recognize just from having Aces in hand but I get frustrated trying to put the description into words. Aces have filaments, but those could be taken for the wispy white you often see on Moss Agates, and they're not. Then there can be somewhat milky glass, which could be mistaken for Moss Agate glass, but it's not. And don't use the milky glass as a requirement because sometimes you can't even see it, because the more solid white is packed so tightly. arg. Words! We need more ace pix. Dani has shown a GORGEOUS one with the yellow-orange ribbon, I think. Need to find that.

One note: when backlighting to test, be sure the orange comes from the base, not the ribbon. Orange and red ribbons can cause reflections which make the base seem to glow. I'm not sure one way or the other about Akro making Aces in any other colors than the basic 5 shown in the ad and the sample case. As Dave shows there are corky marbles which glow, but did Akro sell them as Aces? We know Akro expanded their varieties of Prize Names and Tri-Colors beyond the five color combos they originally advertised, but I have reservations about Aces. I simply don't know. One major obstacle to learning more about what Akro meant as Aces has been the general lack of awareness that Aces had anything special about them. Most people don't know there was any issue to study. There hasn't been much evidence to debate with or about.

Were they a marble company? (lol) Before Alley moved to Pennsboro they were The Lawrence Glass Novelty Co. And then even though their official name in Pennsboro was Alley Agate they were supposedly known as "the dish factory" to the locals. (source: AMMM, pp. 36, 37)

The largest allowed in all the tournaments I remember reading about has been 3/4". However, Vitro labelled their bags of larger marbles "shooters" in the 1938 ad below. In the 1950's they had packages called "Shooters" which contained marbles as small as 11/16" and as large as 1". (If the Shooters packaging ever contained marbles smaller than 11/16", I'm not aware of it, but I won't say they didn't.) However, in the 1950's Marble King's idea of shooters was more in line with yours. Sometimes MK's shooters were very close to average size.

Fab question Jack!