Akro gatherer Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Shall we say that the moderators have grown tired of us and they now bear contemp towards us? if the job is too much to handle well.........think about it. posts are way down except for the fighting threads. there are not as many pics for ids as there use to be. there seems to be less help in the id section. (i may be wrong...jmho) i like this forum. have no problem with anyone but it seems to be a different place than it was when i first started diggin' and was told about it. oh before i am corrected again by someone......i have had my disagreements with others and have since burried the hatchet. (well there is one less post for them to write. probably best since they have alot of other stuff to take care of in here.) sometimes things are taken too seriously here and then sometimes things may not get the attention they need. i feel the squabble zone may have opened this floodgate some by saying "hey it's ok to fight just do it here." since that went into effect things have gone from bad to worse. oh, and i know i was involved in some bad things once.....pheww....saved them another post. i dont post pics anymore because it just doesn't seem fun anymore...sniff sniff. i challenge all of you to a staring contest. MOO!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Diaperfolds...got any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Are some/any/all diaper folds hand gathered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ric, not all, I'm pretty sure. Here are some single-seamers, at least partly Akro. I think the pic is Mibstified's. These would pretty definitely not be hand-gathered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roany poany Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 German striped opaque winnie ^SWEET WINNIE, That marble you posted is gorgeous. Thanks for sharing it. I don't get to see too many of the German machine-mades. Do you know if they made single-seam striped -transparents or -opaques? Ric, why did I know you would like that that marble? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Thanks Steph, I guess my question really is . . . Is "diaper fold" a more specific designation than "single seam"? For instance, perhaps only applicable to hand gathered marbles, or Christensen marbles, or . . .? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ric, why did I know you would like that that marble? LOL Buddy 'ol Buddy 'ol Pal . . . SORRY! While you are most certainly perceptive, you are most certainly NOT a woman! Please excuse my buffoonery! Which one of those "fall cat's eyes" do you want - left or right? And FYI: This is what I would have said had WINNIE actually written that . . . Because you are a very perceptive woman, Winnie. Why else? LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Thanks Steph, I guess my question really is . . . Is "diaper fold" a more specific designation than "single seam"? For instance, perhaps only applicable to hand gathered marbles, or Christensen marbles, or . . .? I believe the term "diaper fold" is generally applied only to certain CAC's. My present belief is that those CAC's were entirely machine made. I don't know how they got to be single-seamed, but my present impression is that they were gobfed. I'll be interested in hearing other opinions tho' since I do still have trouble picturing the process which could create them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 What got me thinking about it is marbles like those in posts #119 and #172. They really have a hand gathered-looking pattern on the side opposite the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roany poany Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I believe the term "diaper fold" is generally applied only to certain CAC's. ^agreeance HEY Ric, no prob, this thread needed a gud laff.. ( I was refering to your liking of blue 'n green marbles) and left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mswitzer3 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Nice thread,maybe we should call it the houdini thread? houdinis website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I believe the term "diaper fold" is generally applied only to certain CAC's . . . ^agreeance O.K. That's what I thought too. So the question now is . . . which ones? HEY Ric, no prob, this thread needed a gud laff.. ( I was refering to your liking of blue 'n green marbles) and left You KNOW I like those B&G's Buddy! And you got it . . . that marble's Texas-bound. NOW, just imagine there's a mint 1 3/4" blue and green CAC diaper fold right . . . here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 O.K. That's what I thought too. So the question now is . . . which ones? You KNOW I like those B&G's Buddy! And you got it . . . that marble's Texas-bound. NOW, just imagine there's a mint 1 3/4" blue and green CAC diaper fold right . . . here. Ric, I've waited for nine pages for that question! "Collecting Early Machine-made Marbles the MF Christensen etc.." Robert Block page 7 top right "fold pontil"...long and short of it is a diaper fold pontil is a cold roll mark on a machine-made American marble . If you don't have the book, I'll bring it to Texas. Just let me know. For those marble collectors who have seen mibs made on a machine and have seen one come off the rollers with a cold roll mark, you have seen a diaper fold made. Steph was right when she said Block has made some mistakes, but this is not one of them! The people who understand his mistaskes and those of other author's are those who have had the mibs in hand and/or been to a marble factory and actually see how it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winnie Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 WINNIE, That marble you posted is gorgeous. Thanks for sharing it. I don't get to see too many of the German machine-mades. Do you know if they made single-seam striped -transparents or -opaques? Yes Ric,I only found 2 one seam transparant striped German machien-made marbles. Here is one,you can see the seam in the bottom picture. This one is 1 inch so is the blue and green one I 've posted earlier. winnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 single seam pastel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Ric, I've waited for nine pages for that question! "Collecting Early Machine-made Marbles the MF Christensen etc.." Robert Block page 7 top right "fold pontil"...long and short of it is a diaper fold pontil is a cold roll mark on a machine-made American marble . If you don't have the book, I'll bring it to Texas. Just let me know. For those marble collectors who have seen mibs made on a machine and have seen one come off the rollers with a cold roll mark, you have seen a diaper fold made. Steph was right when she said Block has made some mistakes, but this is not one of them! The people who understand his mistaskes and those of other author's are those who have had the mibs in hand and/or been to a marble factory and actually see how it happens. Interesting post. This is going to be a test in how to respond when there is a difference of opinion. Possibly very strong. Well, very strong in my case. Steve, I respectfully disagree with your take here. I don't think that "diaper folds" have anything to do with "fold pontils". This might be the first reference I have seen to "diaper fold pontils". I'm very curious as to what led you to make that association. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Interesting post. This is going to be a test in how to respond when there is a difference of opinion. Possibly very strong. Well, very strong in my case. Steve, I respectfully disagree with your take here. I don't think that "diaper folds" have anything to do with "fold pontils". This might be the first reference I have seen to "diaper fold pontils". I'm very curious as to what led you to make that association. Steph, I don't care what your "take" is. Take it any way you choose, but remember that the literature and knowledge evolve. Get out your book read ,it and then decide for yourself. The literature and definitions it provides are the base of our hobby, not the opinions on chat boards. Probably my last post for a couple of weeks as I am leaving for a couple of marble and shows and making a couple of stops to talk about book projects with some experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Steve,very early on,the principals of this post more or less defined diaperfold to be a marble with one seam CAC and that has been the subject.Wheter or not our subject fits your definition is not the subject.You have tried to hijack this thread and are trying again.Get with the program,single seam CAC call them what you like.Single seam CAC or diaperfold.I am side stepping this argument in favor of more marble fun.bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Boy, do I feel stupid but I'm thankful to be able to learn so much in this thread. All this time, I wasn't aware that machine made marbles even HAD pontils. I was also blowed clean away to finally learn what cold rolls are. I've seen marbles made on a machine several times, and I was way wrong about them, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 OK... Despite my meager classical education in this area.... I'm gonna throw out a scenario. It can be applied anyway anyone wants to apply it... A few years ago, at the Wheaton Marble Show, Scott Meyer refurbished an old Vitro marble machine... He did a beautiful job and got that puppy running... It was just the roller part working... There was a section for the glass to drop down, but either it wasn't complete, or they simply weren't able to set it up to work in full automation. So, they gob fed the rollers and produced a group of marbles. There are a few "out there" and I have 2... Both of mine have 2 seams... Here's why... The glass was pulled up on a punty in a fairly large glob, and allowed to drool / drip down into a string about the right size for a marble. One person held the punty, while another clipped off pieces of glass and sent them down the rollers... Soooo, theoretically, the very first marble cut, should have one seam, correct? The rest of each gob would have 2.... I think they managed to get somewhere in the area of 5-7? Marbles out of each gob before the glass cooled too much and a new gob had to be pulled.... There's that info. Do what you want with it... Here's pictures.... And one of the marbles (Ok, they're a little novice looking!! It was the first run!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Wow,great pics.Makes sense to me.Another diaperfold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIRE81 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 The Diaper Fold term never made sense to me. I think using a diaper to illustrate the fold isn't a good example. A diaper is flat. Here's what I see happening. Take a piece of clay and roll it out in a short coil. Pick the 2 ends up and press them together so you now have a doughnut shaped piece of clay. If the "glob" is in it's tire/doughnut/cheerio form before it hits the rollers. It'll look like it only has one seam. If the the "glob" is still in the rolled out coiled form when it hits the rollers(like Scott Meyer's) you're going to end up with a single stream Swirl that only shows one shear mark. Both ends of that "stream/drip" glob never have a chance to meet. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 I believe the term "diaper fold" is generally applied only to certain CAC's . . . ^agreeance O.K. That's what I thought too. So the question now is . . . which ones? Ric, my personal preference would be to give that name only to those which have the most classic "diaper fold" construction. To me this means a very clean wrap and join. Before I would boldly call a single-seamer a diaper fold I would want the fold to be so clear that I could picture the little baby's legs dangling from the sides of the seam. I need photoshop to draw a baby into the picture! LOL But I personally can see the baby's legs poking out here. Chubby little legs. So cute. ;-) . . . . . . . . . Even when I'm feeling bold sometimes it comes out timidly by the time I post about it! LOL. So I want to be really really sure before I claim it as a diaperfold. I very much prefer to err on the side of caution. I don't want to be the one whose ebay auctions people post about. I grade conservatively. I count colors conservatively. If I'm not 100% sure I don't count it. Peltier baseball marbles are another example for me. I want to see a very particular look before I declare one of my Rainbos a baseball. Having just 2 sorta loose pair of ribbons doesn't do it for me. tho' I know that's okay by some others' definitions. One of my exceptions to the strict rule is that if I know a kid used the names, I won't say the kids were wrong just because they don't match modern collectors' stricter defintions. LOL. An example of that is that I don't require "snotties" to be CAC's. I know that back in the day, kids called other marbles snotties also. Tie goes to the kids who actually played with the mibs! LOL (I guess that might apply to pelt baseballs also but I'm still not sure about when the name baseball was first used for rainbos. :-) /end digression (lol) There is a diagram which SOME have found useful in the past to show classic diaper fold construction. Some may not like diagrams in general, but I don't recall anyone actually disagreeing with its accuracy. I'll see if I can find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 Here is the famous diagram often posted. Someone said it was Alan's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FIRE81 Posted October 7, 2009 Report Share Posted October 7, 2009 A Bullet Mold marble is a single seamer...not just CACs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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