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What A Piece Of Frit!!!


BuckEye
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These are a couple new guinea pieces I just acquired. You can see how the frit is not melted completely into the matrix. It is palpable. In another shot of the clear piece in front, you can see how the frit was applied and folded upon itself making a cobra inside. Also, you ever see a guinea with just baby blue and orange?!!!! I was told that the guineas were hand cranked into a machine......maybe they rolled frit onto a gathering table first, covered with what ever colored glass and then fed into this machine???

C

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Anyone remember the patent someone showed -- I think it was Winnie -- for a machine to convert preformed rods into marbles. ... if I recall correctly .....

I guess the machine heated the rods up up somehow and then cut them.

I think it was a German patent so it wouldn't necessarily apply to guineas. Just mentioning it because it's not such an odd idea to mix canes and machines.

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I recall being told about 15 years ago by one of the German marble makers that someone from Christensen Agate helped a German company build and set up the first marble making machine in Germany. I'll have to go dig out my notes to see who exactly it was that told me that.

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Being a CAC collector all the assumptions revolving around how they were made are nothing more than that. ASSUMPTIONS. I have seen several drawings where a glass stream from a tank was run over rollers and manipulated before reaching shears. Frit could have been added along the way and there were burners to keep things at the proper temps. I no where at any time have seen any real evidence that Canes of glass were made at CAC then used to make marbles. And looking at the seam patterns, Stretched and blotched frit patterns, and the lack of anything that looks like an actual cane I just don't see all that handwork going into these type marbles. Guineas, striped trans striped opaques even the slags were made in the same way as the Guineas. Color applied differently, yes.but thats all.. Sorry folks, I think we need come up with another idea. Those broken pieces of glass streams can be found at many of the marble sites.

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I agree with Galen here, the use of canes doesn't seem likely to me. How about this:

CAC is famous for colors that do not mix or bleed. One of the most interesting things about this cullet is that it is not a homogenous mixture. It was obviously molten, or at least partly so, and yet the different colors of glass remained separate.

Guineas are, essentially, veneered marbles. Could they have put a mixture of differently-colored small glass beads or bits, made seperately in batches and processed to a fairly uniform size, into the "veneer pot" and then applied that molten heterogenous mixture over a base glass?

I'm not smart enough to know how they may have actually done this but, in principle, it seems pretty strainght forward. Am I crazy?

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The main thing folks are also forgetting is that the canes are drawn down from a larger fatter glob of glass. They are not made as a cane. Way too much time and effort to try and make an actual cane one at a time in the shape of a cane. I think the fact that many Guineas are big rounded blotches while some are stretched lines and many are both pretty much dispells any cane theory IMO.

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So if these are not cane pieces, are they pieces of a glob that didn't make it to the shears? Please explain. I have seen several of these pieces like Ann posted that are 4-5inches long. How does John make his shamrock marbles? Must be a similar process in at least a few aspects. Poke

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This is something John wrote in a thread a while back -- don't know exactly when, since I saved it then as a seperate document (as opposed to searching the forum):

CA Guineas (Hand-gathered and Machine-rounded)

A gather of base glass (cobalt, amber, clear, etc...) is collected on the end of a punty rod.

The gathering-boy then rolls the gather in frit laying on a marver.

Now, because the frit is cold, the dots need to be heated to melt in with the base glass.

There is not enough heat in the base glass to integrate the frit completely.

The gathering-boy then reheats the complete gather in the glory hole.

Once the glass is back up to temperature, the gathering-boy removes the gather from the glory hole and brings it to the forming machine.

A gob (or gobs) are cut off into the machine for rounding.

The first gob will have one cut-line and each successive gob will have two.

Later there's a bit about perhaps needing a new term -- not hand-gathered or cane-cut, exactly -- more like "manipulated" glass.

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Another big assumption for sure. This in no way explains how the blotches of color can be stretched on one side and round on the other. Also a big problem with this theory is that the splotches would carry from one side of the seam to the other if this was how they were made. And that is never ever the case with Guineas or striped transparents, translucents. Still need another idea. Johns marbles are constructed much different than actual CAC construction. Guineas are constructed the same way these marbles are. Color applied differently (probably) but the rest is the same. That is why you see the internal looping and the S on the side of Guineas just like you do on these. No drip and cut IMO..

bifrucated_CAC.jpg

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As the glass folded upon itself at first in the machine(like pouring out thick maple syrup on a pancake), one side would be stretched from the fold and the other would remain blotches, as the glass cooled less stretching would occur and as it got going maybe its more of a thread and continuous feed or pour causing uniformity so to speak. The folding upon itself would also account for any cobra action inside. I know i am beating a dead horse but this forum was getting stale :) we can discuss it over several beers in Canton lol

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Another big assumption for sure . . . Also a big problem with this theory is that the splotches would carry from one side of the seam to the other if this was how they were made. And that is never ever the case with Guineas or striped transparents, translucents. Still need another idea. Johns marbles are constructed much different than actual CAC construction. Guineas are constructed the same way these marbles are. Color applied differently (probably) but the rest is the same. That is why you see the internal looping and the S on the side of Guineas just like you do on these. No drip and cut IMO.

Sorry, but lots of assumptions there, too!

[where's that "poking the bear" symbol?]

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Both Brian and John have good, practical ideas about how it might have been done. You may not agree with them, but I'm afraid that doesn't make them wrong. Best keep an open mind, until somebody invents a time machine and pays a visit to the factory back in the day.

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After studying the construction of these beautiful orbs for over 10 years I am open to all new ideas and theories. Believe me, I really want to hear and discuss one that seems logical to me. Nothing I have heard yet makes sense to ME. Thats all. If others want to believe they have figured it out that is great, they can relax and don't have to listen to any more theories. In the mean time I will be out there with an open mind and all ears until something makes sense to me..And it won't take a time machine if someone ever comes up with some drawings pictures or machines??

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