Miller Machine

[Berryb]

Ok I know that Miller Machine is a term no longer used ( I saw someone get actually angry at someone for using it on another forum). But there was a specific type of Pelt made during that period. Has there ever been another term applied to these marbles?

Here are some pics of some of mine. 2 questions; are these what were once Miller Machines? and what do I call them?

[Berryb]

The photos didn't load I'll try again

[Marbleized]

Just wondering if this is the same kind of marble . . . whatever it is called now days.  Waiting to find out the answer to your question.  I didn't know it was controversial.

[Noodleloaf]

I can't answer why Miller Machine is no longer used, but I have some of these and believe they are called multicolor swirls (MCS). If they have ribbons instead they are multicolor ribbons (MCR).

To me, all 5 do appear to be Peltier MCS.

Others will kindly correct me if I'm mistaken.

[I'llhavethat1]

Pretty sure MCR = Multi Color Rainbos.

MCS and MCR can look very similar in terms of ribbons/colors/construction and I have to believe that sometimes the seams are hard to spot once going through the machine.

 

[Steph]

I generally say "Multicolor Rainbo" for all of them, and note that they're National Line era marbles.  But obviously the swirly ones have a special appeal so I understand why people want to earn the label "Swirl". 

I have no knowledge of the swirly ones being an earlier period than the more orderly ones.  I have imagined that it just depended on the machine's mood on any given day and they could all be mixed together in the timeline.  But I literally do not know. 

[Marbleized]

Always learning something new!  Thanks everybody!  Also thank you BerryB for letting me tack my pic up with your post!

[Berryb]

The way I understand it; a few years ago it was discovered that The Miller Machine was for sizing only, and not to put glass together or form swirls or ribbons. This is when marbles of a certain type were no longer referred to as Miller Machines. I have scanned a page from Block's 5th edition, so  as recently as 2012 at least Miller Machine was still a valid term. If it was only for sizing it seems to have a pretty limited scope. You can see from the bottom of the page these mibs were mostly 9 to 11 16ths. The page gives a description of what was once Miller Machines and now seem to be old pelt swirls. I guess the reason I'm so concerned is I think they are really nice marbles.

[Marbleized]

It sounds like the results of the marbles made on the Miller machine were single-stream swirls and then the rainbos were made on a different marble machine.  

[wvrons]

How many different size swirl marbles did Peltier produce ? Did each size require a different machine ? Which part or piece of the marble machine determined if marble would be a swirl or ribbon or patch design ? Was Peltier the only marble company that owned and ran Miller marble machines ?  Why do the marbles produced the last two to three years on the Peltier Miller machine look nothing like any Peltier marble ? How many marble machines did Miller in PA produce ?  Can you produce a swirl, or ribbon or patch style marble on the same exact machine without any modifications or changes ?  Were the Peltier swirl marbles planned standard production ?  Or were they a mistake not as planned ? Were the Peltier swirl marbles made only during a certain time frame ? 

From all my 20+ years experience, the only thing the marble machine does is make the hot glass gob round. Miller machine, Vitro machine, Jabo machine,  a Steph machine, all will just make the hot glass glob round.  The marble machine does not make any pattern, design, style or certain type marble.  Its only purpose is to make the marble round and cool it. 

[Marbleized]

So, it sounds like it just depended on the viscosity of the glass and whatever else added that was being used and maybe the temperature at the time. (?)

[wvrons]

I think the design type or style of the marble is made upstream of the marble machine. It is made in the furnace, the addition of colors or feed system, the flow to the shear and going through the shear. Once the hot glass glob hits the marble machine, the machine makes it round and cools it.  

[akronmarbles]

Ron is spot on. I own one of the Miller machines - it only makes a sufficiently hot gob of glass spherical, nothing else.

 

[Berryb]

That's a seriously cool machine. Seeing it helps me to visualize the process. The marbles were made upstream and rounded and sized, according to the size of the grooves, in the machine. So Miller Machine is not really a valid term for the Marbles in question, because that machine or something similar was used on most, if not all styles of Pelt mibs.

Now I gotta wonder about Mr. Miller and his machine. Did he make marbles as well? What prompted him to make this machine? Was there another use, Ball Bearings maybe, or mill balls? Because even if he sold one to every marble maker in the country, which is doubtful, that's not enough machines to keep him in business. I guess the tool collector in me is what made me go off on this tangent. Thanks

Bruce

[akronmarbles]

William J Miller was an inventor and engineer. He had his own company - The William J Miller Machine Co in Swissvale, PA. He may have done work for Hartford Empire but most of the patents he is credited with are not assigned to Hartford - which would be the case if he was their 'machinist" as the book quote above says. He was a prodigious inventor in both glass and ceramic manufacturing processes.

The first machine he created was built for Nividon Weiskopf  - they were a commercial litho and glass manufacturing business in Cinn, Ohio. Prior to getting their machine from Miller - they were probably buying glass litho balls first from MFC and later from Akro Agate. I have documentation that Miller sold pneumatic shears to Akro Agate in 1915, and he undoubtedly got to crawl all over Akro machines in the testing and proving process. Almost every glass manufacturer in the US was using Miller products and devices. I imagine he was making a sale to Nivison when someone said something like this...."we could save a bunch of $ if we were making our own litho balls instead of buying them...we already have the hot glass in house and only need a machine" - Miller fulfills their request - the Nivison info only came out later in a lawsuit. The machines sold to Peltier were a different design and model type than the one used at Nivison.

For more useless info on the machine(s) - see this page on my website: http://www.briangrahamglass.com/william-j-miller-glass-marble-making-machine/

[Marbleized]

Reading your description of the Miller machine and its history is so much more interesting than any paragraph about it in a book!  I've read it several times here and there, but the info just went in and out of my brain.  Thanks!

[machinemades]

Brian, can you tell us from your research how did you come up with the conclusion that miller had nothing to do with the remaining part of marble production in Peltier other than rollers. In other words miller only designed the rollers and others designed the feeder part. And who might that be? I am trying to find the patent I saw years ago here on this board by miller stating that the machine is responsible creating elaborate patterns on marbles. 

[akronmarbles]

I think you are referencing the three Sellers Peltier patents.

[akronmarbles]

US1946879

[Marbleized]

I just watched Joe Marbles' "How to Make a Marble" on YouTube.  It's starting to make more sense.  Now my question is how did they get the Peltier Rainbo ribbon to just swirl around the equator?  Sorry, this is probably very obvious to the seasoned collector, but I'm a bit marble production challenged.  

[akronmarbles]

August 1953

 

[marblemover]

Sami, the three Peltier patents:
1927650_method_of_and_device_for_making_vitreous_objects.pdf  feathered slags with striations

1865787_device_for_making_vitreous_like_objects.pdf  shaping and forming spheres

1946879_means_for_and_method_of_making_agatized_bodies.pdf  NLRs

[akronmarbles]

I have always thought that 1865787 patent was only filed for as a security measure in case they lost the appeals case.

 

[machinemades]

Ok I am sure I am missing something here but the first patent above is dated 1933, second 1932 and third 1934. Miller swirls are dated early production which could be as early as 1924 and probably gone to nlrs by end of the decade. Can patent date and production date differ this much?

[akronmarbles]

The first marbles made by Peltier are hand gathered and machine rounded - just like MFC. Akro and CA are in the same boat.