Peltier Grey Dragon vs. Peltier Orange Angel.

[Peltier Mibber]

So there's a couple marbles with slightly different base glass that I'm hoping to sort out.

I know some folks are a stickler for names and for various and sometimes good reason. My point is to sort out classification if at all possible. And if anyone is interested....in doing so  together, that would be great.

I'm wanting to start with the angel base hopefully someone has some photos to share, as I don't have any tradition angels, though they are on my want list.

So far what's commonly known, there are 3 angels; Blue, Red and the harder to find Green Angels all with a muddy type base glass with the respective colors.

I've seen what appears to be similar base glass with two other marbles that aren't considered angels though the base glass really, really seems to fit, and this is where I need help.

I'll post the two mentioned above as a reference for this discussion and again hopefully someone has known Angels to share and compare.

[Peltier Mibber]

Here's yet another one but with a different base glass to compare the contrast.

Again the purpose of this one is too show the contrast in the base glass.

And I believe this one in particular to be what is called a Grey Dragon.

[Chuck G]

Both examples are very nice and a little different, especially the second one you call the "Grey Dragon". I want to share a little story about this grey example. I will take you back some years and my very good great friend Gino Biffany from Ottawa who has left us now. He was a digger sometimes up there and he had dug a some examples of these that i had purchased from him.  We shared some nice talks about these, an his examples i got was the shooter size 3/4 plus and he had asked me to stick a name to them.  Very reluctant to do as i know how names go for some collectors. This was around 15 plus years ago.  These examples fall into a larger ribbon family type which has a opaque grey base, with an (orange) transparent ribbons on them. So far these are the ONLY ones i have seen until your smaller version. Your example could very well fall into this family type with ribbons on them, which i am sure they made also with smaller examples and bigger ones.  Gonna try to find a photo with this for you.  Chuck G---

[Peltier Mibber]

31 minutes ago, Chuck G said:

Both examples are very nice and a little different, especially the second one you call the "Grey Dragon". I want to share a little story about this grey example. I will take you back some years and my very good great friend Gino Biffany from Ottawa who has left us now. He was a digger sometimes up there and he had dug a some examples of these that i had purchased from him.  We shared some nice talks about these, an his examples i got was the shooter size 3/4 plus and he had asked me to stick a name to them.  Very reluctant to do as i know how names go for some collectors. This was around 15 plus years ago.  These examples fall into a larger ribbon family type which has a opaque grey base, with an (orange) transparent ribbons on them. So far these are the ONLY ones i have seen until your smaller version. Your example could very well fall into this family type with ribbons on them, which i am sure they made also with smaller examples and bigger ones.  Gonna try to find a photo with this for you.  Chuck G---

Thank you for conversing on this.

I should note that the bottom one is 7/8.

 

[Chad G.]

43 minutes ago, Peltier Mibber said:

Thank you for conversing on this.

I should note that the bottom one is 7/8.

 

You may have the real deal my friend, the base is opaque correct, not translucent like the others ?? This one is from the Peltier info site and identified as a Grey Dragon Rainbo, the one I used to have & sold was exactly like this & opaque. As this one is also listed under opaque bases. Mine was only 21/32nds. I believe you have a very rare bird there if the base is opaque & true grey. I've only heard of the larger versions but know a few exist & are NLR style like yours. Just a sec, I'm going to see if I can find mine. Found it, not a very good pic, I auctioned it off 11 years ago, but remember distinctly the grey concrete colored opaque base, as said this is a smaller 21/32nds rainbo style.

This is my old auction pic, not very good but you can tell what it was.

Found some more, 21/32nds not 5/8ths, definitely a rainbo style like on the Peltier info site

but I am aware of an example or two not shown on the site that is large like yours & not a rainbo.

LINK :https://www.peltiermarbles.info/copy-of-tracers

[Ric]

39 minutes ago, Peltier Mibber said:

Thank you for conversing on this.

I'd be interested to know if any of the gray-based Pelts glow green under UV.

[Chad G.]

Not Mine or any of the others I've seen Ric, all had a very solid grey opaque base, no ade qualities what so ever, but who knows, they made at least one of anything you can imagine ?? I had another called a Peltier Juggernaut, Also with a lighter opaque grey base. Found it, one I auctioned off in 09, lighter but definitely grey. Non uv. reactive also. I had one of these that was darker grey like the dragons also & the ribbons were a little redder but still a rusty shade of orange, again no uv.

 

[Ric]

The reason I ask:

Not a very dark gray, but the base is entirely opaque.

[Tommy]

Great question 🤔 

[Ric]

The bases on these marbles are not opaque, at least to me. But they look a lot like the base on the Confederate and Grey Dragon on the Peltier Marbles Info Site, although the center two marbles here are much more gray IMO. They all look like variations of a muddy base to me.

[Peltier Mibber]

Hmmm. I'll check and see if any glow and if they're opaque.

[Chad G.]

5 minutes ago, Ric said:

The bases on these marbles are not opaque, at least to me. But they look a lot like the base on the Confederate and Grey Dragon on the Peltier Marbles Info Site, although the center two marbles here are much more gray IMO. They all look like variations of a muddy base to me.

Agree !!

[Chad G.]

51 minutes ago, Ric said:

The reason I ask:

Not a very dark gray, but the base is entirely opaque.

If you can dream it pelt made it, I've seen some real freaks & had some I've never seen again, so many I wish I had never let go. Never doubted you for a second Ric.

[Ric]

25 minutes ago, Chad G. said:

. . . Never doubted you for a second Ric.

I was doubting myself, Chad. Here in Indiana, I probably come across a lot more Kokomos than you do. Quite a few of them glow, especially those with an opaque grayish base, and I am convinced that some of them are taken as Peltiers. Having said that, I have not had very many verified examples of Kokomos in hand (but probably more than most collectors) and I am always a bit hesitant with the oddballs, since I am worried I am going to attribute them to the wrong company.

[Ric]

52 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Great question 🤔 

 

Does light pass through the base of that one, Tommy?

[Chad G.]

On 3/20/2021 at 8:33 PM, Ric said:

I was doubting myself, Chad. Here in Indiana, I probably come across a lot more Kokomos than you do. Quite a few of them glow, especially those with an opaque grayish base, and I am convinced that some of them are taken as Peltiers. Having said that I have not had very many verified examples of Kokomos in hand (but probably more than most collectors) and I am always a bit hesitant with the oddballs, since I am worried I am going to attribute them to the wrong company.

Well said Ric, yes Kokomos are very hard to come by here, almost all I've seen look similar to pelt baseballs and glow like the sun. Narrow on one end and wide on the other, a few of the seedy, bubbly looking dark translucent based ones show every once in a while but most I've seen out here are in collections. Here's a pic of some glowers a friend of mine from Indiana has for sale on Ebay right now. I have maybe one seedy dark one somewhere around here somewhere. You probably know Jim he's sold on Ebay for a while and just recently started up again. if you would have asked me 15 or 20 years ago I would have said no way, those are just weird Pelt Rainbo's !!

 

Ebay sales link for Jim's mibs,  ( vintagedayscollectibles )

LINK : https://www.ebay.com/sch/vintagedayscollectibles/m.html?item

[Peltier Mibber]

45 minutes ago, Ric said:

The bases on these marbles are not opaque, at least to me. But they look a lot like the base on the Confederate and Grey Dragon on the Peltier Marbles Info Site, although the center two marbles here are much more gray IMO. They all look like variations of a muddy base to me.

The base glass in the middle one has me wondering.

I had this BEAST ID on another board "about marbles" as a Vitro so I let it go.

It was 15/16

[Chad G.]

2 hours ago, Peltier Mibber said:

The base glass in the middle one has me wondering.

I had this BEAST ID on another board "about marbles" as a Vitro so I let it go.

It was 15/16

Only one other forum, AAM as far as I know, are you there with the same avatar ?? Just wondering, I use the same avatar but a different avatar name ?? You'll recognize my Pelt tiger there.

[Ric]

Based on that one pic, I would not have thought Vitro.

[Peltier Mibber]

6 minutes ago, Ric said:

Based on that one pic, I would not have thought Vitro.

Oh boy. I thought it was Pelt, but told Vitro.

And now I think it was a killer Kokomo☹️

[Chad G.]

A pretty safe bet on vitro, it's not a kokomo.

[wvrons]

 The one just above, looks Vitro to me. How many Pelts or Kokomo has three(maybe four) different color ribbons side by side touching each other on half the marble and one white filament or stringy ribbon on the opposite half or other side ?  Lots of companies made opaque and translucent gray base marbles.  

The Pelt Angels that I had, all three color combos were yellow/brown translucent base. Most look about as much yellow as brown. I have never seen a gray base Angel.  I call a off yellow to brown a muddy base. I never thought of gray as muddy. Most dirt in the east is yellow, brown or red, lots of yellow and red clay.  I know well the midwest has black dirt. Maybe muddy there is gray ?  

[Peltier Mibber]

I'm feeling better now.

----------------------

I'm thinking I needed to get my hands on an actual Angel to compare the base glass. It's hard via pictures.

[Ric]

I agree it's more likely Vitro than Kokomo.

[Ric]

8 hours ago, wvrons said:

 . . . I call a off yellow to brown a muddy base. I never thought of gray as muddy. Most dirt in the east is yellow, brown or red, lots of yellow and red clay.  I know well the midwest has black dirt. Maybe muddy there is gray ?  

When I think of a muddy, I think as much about the way the base looks as its color, and my muddy does run to gray. Maybe because the first marble I ever associated with muddy was the Pelt with the light gray base and weak green ribbons, like Muddie4 on the Peltier Info Site.