wvrons

If it is that powerful ? Why would someone sell it ? A fool looking for a bigger fool.

The answer for that is both. Some people involved with money invested were for fun, recreation, learning and a hopes of a profit. Some people involved with money invested were there purely for hopes of a profit. I made a profit on most runs and lost money on some. It the end it worked out ok. I made a lot of good and long time friends and a great learning experience with marbles and marble making equipment. Individual people invested from $500.00 to $5000.00 average each per run. A few more and a few less. But most people do not pay that kind of money with only hopes of fun and recreation alone. I tried and did most times get all my investment back in a year or less. Never any plan on holding them for years and appreciate in the future. I had the advantage of picking my favorites from my share and still have those. I currently have as many or more old Jabo classics before the investor runs as investor runs. These investor runs were over a 4-5 year period and 60-70 different runs. The runs having most times from six to twenty investors from all over the country. Each investor could gave a different amount invested. The money invested determined the amount of the share of the total marbles good and bad. There was never any guarantee of any kind, for what marbles you would receive or how many. Some runs in the end were much better than others in all ways. I did not give someone $1000.00 to later receive a few boxes of totally unknown marbles. I also had hopes of fun, learning and meeting friends with a chance of a profit. Some people doubled or more their investment with a run. I did not, not on any run. I might have if maybe I had not gave so many away free. A few people here and some no longer here, received them. Plus kids that I gave them to at shows about 8-10 times a year from Kansas, Texas and most all between. I do events with kids every year local and they always have received free marbles. So kids did receive them for toys and I was not alone. My shares were not 100% made for collectors only. There were hundreds of people involved over the years. Many people returned again or for several runs. I cannot speak for each one of them. I don't understand how people who were not investors in a few runs do speak about and for all the investors. Again there might be two sides. Maybe one if you were a investor and had the experience. Another side if you never invested any money or had the experience start to finish. The more times the more money invested on the line and the more experience and not hearsay, maybe they would know ? Jabo is still in business today. I like a few marbles including play or collector marbles still being produced in the US. I can not say or prove how much of my money paid bills for Jabo. But I have no doubts that Jabo Co. received some of my money and I helped pay some Jabo expenses. This has all been hashed out over and over every year many times since the first few Jabo special investor runs. I have again said way to much. Just another opinion from someone who was there many times start to finish.

Lots of zero feedback for one bidder who bid several times ??????????? If it actually sold and not returned, a happy seller. Maybe a happy buyer ???? I have a friend who had more cash than that in his pockets at each show and almost daily. He was happy buying Jabo's or a $5000.00 marble. A month later he might not even be able to find the $5000.00 marble. He collected and bought all kinds of marbles. He has a Coke collection worth over a million dollars. Value or worth has different meanings to different people.

I can agree with some of the above as usual. But not 100% of Jabos(even including investor runs)were made as collectibles. I was a investor in 25 or 30 runs or more and gave marbles away to children for play from every run, and I definitely was not alone. They were made as collectibles and for play and to make smiles and friends. But the king of evil took over many people. Would production numbers and years in operation have something to do with the amount available ? Who produced the most marbles Alley or CAC ? Here I see a lot more plain two color CAC than I do even plain Peltier. Location can have something to do with what is available or seen. I have and others with me have witnessed it. A two color swirl marble is marked CAC for $300.00. Then they find out it is really Alley and in seconds the price is marked to $10.00 . I saw a long time 30+ year CAC collector who lives in Cambridge do the above. Mike R. from OH did it almost every time he ask me to pick out his Alleys from his CAC's. So for me I saw it as a name thing. If it was not CAC it made no difference who made it or how many or what it looked like. The same exact marble went from hundreds of dollars to ten dollars. I collect CAC and pay hundreds for some, but I doubt many are simple two color swirls. I bought my first Alley Blue Lady as a CAC. I paid $100.00 nm condition at an early New Philly show from a well know CAC dealer. I had looked at them for a couple years but that was a higher price marble for me. But I bought it and liked it enough to search it out and find out it was produced by Alley. As we know the price dropped. The same number of Blue lady marbles were produced and out there for collectors 20+ years ago when they were CAC. But once they were known produced by Alley the value dropped. Any marble is just a piece of glass. Most were made as cheap toys. Any one of them is only worth what someone will pay for it. More than one person was willing to pay for the original one above. The problem was that by mistake it was identified incorrect. Which very few if any of us have never done. Buy the name and you may be disappointed just as the above buyer may be or not be ? How many times do collectors buy a CAC sold as a Alley ? Over the last 25 years more actual Alleys were sold as CAC. Look at all the Alleys listed as CAC on ebay for a month. Then look at all the CAC listed as Alleys on ebay for a month. I still sell plain two color swirl CAC marbles for more than I can any of the other swirl companies,plain two color swirls. Want rare by numbers how about Davis Marble Works ? What about Jackson with about one box car produced. But they are all still $10.00 or less. We all have opinon's and they are usually based on our own collections and friends. Just sayin many times there are two sides to most things.

Any size can cause confusion. I have a 3/4 Jabo on my key chain as a reminder. I bought it at a show thinking it was Alley. When I got home I realized that I already had several of them, Jabo's. I wanted it to be a Alley. So my mind made it a Alley, with help from a good salesman. But the truth was it is a Jabo. Many 7/8 Jabo older classics and newer ones are confused with Alley's. Again I know very few honest collectors of any time that has not had a marble which they thought was a certain one and find out later that it was not what they thought. Many Vacor marbles have been purchased as vintage. Mistaken identity has always happened and always will. If no new machine made marbles are produced in the next 50 years. One hundred percent of machine made marbles will not be identified correctly. The big profit or gain did not happen with this marble because you were honest and collectors want to buy a name. The marble never ever changed from when you listed it or after it was sold. More than one person thought it looked like a $50.00 marble. If Alley had made it, we have no way of knowing how many he might have made. If Jabo or DAS made it, we have no way of knowing how many were made. Either maker maybe 100 or maybe 5000 ??? Alley Jabo DAS Vacor collectors want to buy company names what ever the marble looks like. I have heard buyers say, it is ugly but it is Peltier or Akro or CAC. I doubt you will lose money with this marble, unless you purchased it with the Alley name. But just not receive the big gain you once thought. In the long run many times things equal out for sellers or buyers.

I wonder what year the comic was ?

Jabo made tons of 9/16 marbles with oxblood. Many of the Jabo tank wash marbles were 1/2-9/16-5/8 and had oxblood . DAS makes swirl marbles 1/2 to 3/4 or larger. Sammy's Mountain Marbles has produced swirl marbles 1/2 to 11/16. They all produced marbles in the US. They all try to produce what people want and what people buy. If not they have no business. Why would anyone make dark ugly marbles intentionally. People years ago liked oxblood on marbles. So people still like oxblood on marbles made the last ten years ? Why is the marble worth $57.00 if a Alley and worth $1.00-5.00 if Jabo ? Did the marble change looks ? Why is a CAC worth $300.00 and when I tell a seller it is a Alley the price is immediately marked to $30.00. Did the same exact marble change while I blinked ? People buy a name not the marble. Everyone makes mistakes buyers and sellers. It has happened since people started collecting marbles and it will happen as long as people collect marbles. I bought my first Alley Blue Lady as a CAC from a well known CAC collector and authority. But I discovered two years later that it was more likely made by Alley. Then I had to prove for myself if it was CAC or Alley. I did and they were produced by Alley. Not CAC as people had thought for years. If you are going to collect or sell marbles ? You will find mistakes and or make mistakes. I am sure that it is impossible to know or learn every marble that has ever been made. Now you and the buyer plus maybe a few more are more familiar with another marble. I don't think I have ever seen a Alley with that much oxblood or that color combination. But no way have I seen every marble Alley produced, and I never will. If it looks to good to be true, many times it is.

WOW !! What a great thread. Great pictures and information.

Maybe the marbles in the box at the start of this post were produced by one of the other companies in Mexico or South America ? Whatever their names were and time frames they were in business. Good to know that there were good numbers of glass marble manufactures there. Maybe we will learn more about these unknown marbles which many label as foreign because we don't know who when or where they were made.

Correct Akro definitely made oxbloods and millions of Milky oxbloods. I have dug them at Akro. Alley made marbles with oxblood. I have also dug Alleys at Alley sites with oxblood. Both have been found in original packages. No big secrets with either company producing oxbloods. The information has been widely available for several years now. Some people like chewing on their own foot. Many could ask more before spreading false statements or information, that could affect many.

I agree the high bid wins not matter when placed. The buyer may have had a bid of $500.00 on this box ? You never know what the buyers actual true bid was. Someone has to increase the bid for it to reach the maximum that someone has placed. I also have used a snipe for many long years and with no problems. It is nice when I cannot have use or time to be on the internet. Plus I do not have to worry about forgetting to bid. Plus I am not running the bid up early on. I don't get into the auction game of going over what I intended to pay for it. Also some ebay buyers watched for what I was bidding on. Then they would outbid me. If you know or keep track of certain peoples feedback numbers you can still know who is bidding. I received two emails in the last month where people mentioned they seen me bidding on something. I will sometimes place a start bid, not by my snipe. Some sellers cancel a listing if no bids in the first few days. I pay a yearly snipe fee with unlimited number of bids and the small cost is worth it for me. I have had trouble placing bids sometimes on ebay. My electric is off, my computer was down, ebay was doing maintence, etc. But my snipe has made it 99% of the time for many years. Just find what works best for you and you are going to lose sometimes. Many times there will be another one , maybe next week, next year or years. But if you search long and hard enough most can be found. There are a few only one but those are few.

Interesting ! I have no evidence who or when. Who other than Vacor would have produced these in Mexico ? Or was a box filled by someone other than a company or at the factory ? There were four of these same boxes together. Maybe not 1930's but 1940's or 1950's ? Lots of changes happen over ten years or twenty years. My guess on the marbles alone not in any box. I would have guessed Champion. Craig knows boxes so the box must be the correct age. Did someone In Mexico buy Champion marbles and fill the boxes with them ? Kathy has also showed me older Vacors that she got right at the factory many years ago. Which were suppose to have been made by Vacor in the 40's-50's and they looked like definate Peltier and some were swirls. So was Vacor making these in those years or buying them from the US and maybe packaging them ? Lots of questions and opinions ????????

The silver worked well. The gold did not show much. Bobby Newman did the silver in a couple runs. I think one of the marbles with silver was named Silver Fox. Boyce Lundstrum did the gold in the Peltier Mansion run. You won't see many if any of the one's with silver or gold for sale.

I have doubt. Both look Alley to me. Many Alley's have been sold for years as CAC. The Alley Blue Lady, the Alley West Virginian, and lots of other Alleys were sold as CAC. The first Alley Blue Lady which I purchased was sold to me as CAC. Things change with more information and some people do not stay updated. Some people are just totally unwilling to change.

I was involved and present for about 50 or 60 of the special investor runs at Jabo. We used man made aventurine glass. It was purchased as plate glass, some as glass rods and some as chunks by the pound. It was broken up into smaller pieces and added into the main tank in many different places. We bought it in several different colors, blue, green, red, black, brown, etc. The gold lutz is man made goldstone. We bought some of it ground some was in rods, but most chunks by the pound. Sometimes two different things or certain glass types and colors were combined to make oxblood. Sometimes goldstone was used to make oxblood. The heart or center of a large chunk of goldstone would usually make lutz. Lutz is a sparking gold usually a stripe or ribbon. The outer portions of the goldstone chunk was used to make oxblood and sometimes it would burn up or disappear completely. We tried mica several times and different ways without much success. Mica usually caused problems and dark ugly marbles. We also used 99 % pure silver, some in coin form. Some actual 14K gold was added. Aluminum and other soft lower melting metal were used for metallics. Some worked some did not. We added the colors(not aventurine)into the main tank with the base glass at different locations. Those colors came from lots of different sources of cullet, plate glass, man made colored rods, Fenton art glass, etc. . We used many different sources of cullet for clear. Some of the clear cullet were empty whiskey and other liquor bottles. I saw more than one dump truck dumped at Jabo to make clear in marbles. All the methods and materials used for the Jabo special investor runs could fill a large book. It was a great learning experience for many including first timers, even some who had 20 and 30 years experience in making marbles. We also had several contemporary marble makers help. Like them or not, some pretty marbles were made and many close friendships were made. Several who had hands in this are now gone but not forgotten. Marble history and many good times plus marbles.

Very nice to meet you ! Glad you had a good time. But I had no doubts about that. You are no longer a rookie, now on to the next show, and more good times.

Take a deep breath and relax. It is done. Congratulations !

In room trading buying and selling starts Thursday. I recommend to attend on Friday and late night. Saturday is show day. It will be in two separate rooms if as usual. If I could only attend 8 or 12 hours it would be Friday. Bring a good flashlight. Bring lots of cash, double what you think, someone told me triple LOL. There is a ATM there. There should be a list of marble people's room numbers at the front desk or in the main lobby. Visit every room and some twice. Something to put your finds in. Ask lots of questions, you will get answers. Warm clothes it will be below zero. Look me up, most people know me.

Looks like a machine made with roll marks. Many marbles which appear black are purple. If you backlight the black ones with a very strong light or slice it thin enough, it will be purple many more times than true black.

Check PM Brian. Thanks

Oct.16,1930 Lawrence Alley and Bertha L. Alley purchased a building and formed a business In Sistersville WV as Lawrence Glass Novelty Company for marble production . Berry Pink joined them later during 1931. They had two marble machines designed by Alley. The machines produced 165 marbles per minute or 237,600 a day. The Rosenthal company had been doing business with Alley for some time. Berry Pink suggested to Rosenthal that he should buy the business. Late 1931 Lawrence Alley sold out to Morris Rosenthal. Berry Pink had been employed by The Rosenthal Company in 1922. In Jan. 1934 Berry Pink sued Morris Rosenthal and the Rosenthal Company of New York. The dispute was over 50% of the stock of Lawrence Glass Novelty. Berry Pink had become head of the company after Alley left. In Dec. 4, 1934 Berry Pink was tried in Tyler County WV (Sistersville)of stealing two marble packaging machines worth $250.00 from Lawrence Glass Novelty plant. He was found innocent. In 1931 Berry Pink was also affiliated with Peltier Glass selling their marbles in "Marble King" packages. Long time connections of Berry Pink with Lawrence Alley and Peltier Glass. So you will find Alley Peltier and Marble King marbles in bags and box sets marked Marble King from the MARBLE KING Berry Pink.

I am not sure the header MARBLE KING is definite for Marble King Company. It may be MARBLE KING for Berry Pink. That was his nickname and what he wanted to be known as MARBLE KING. You can find this same header with marbles in the bag which were all produced before Marble King Company was formed. You can find bags with the header MARBLE KING which contain all Alley marbles and some contain all Peltier marbles. These bags with the MARBLE KING header can be confusing. They can have all Marble King marbles. They can have no Marble King marbles. They can have a mix of different company marbles. They can be before Marble King was a company. They can be from when Marble King company just began operation and after Marble King company was steady in business. Berry Pink was a jobber and marble promoter before and during Marble King company operations. Berry Pink was part owner of the Marble King company. Probably a reason for the name Marble King, his nickname. Another Marble King company owner was Sellers Peltier Jr. another reason you can find these bags with Peltier marbles. These bags can contain late Alley marbles. From Berry Pink as a jobber. Before Marble King company was formed. Also left over Alley stock when Marble King company was formed. These bags contain Peltier marbles. From Berry Pink as a jobber. Before Marble King company was formed. Also from Sellers Peltier Jr. part owner of Marble King company. These bags contain actual Marble King company marbles. These bags can contain a mix of different company marbles. From Berry Pink as a jobber. There are yellow box sets with a bag which has the marking MARBLE KING in a half circle on the top of the box. These also can be found with all Alleys or all Peltier or all Marble King or a mix. These boxes can be from before Marble King was formed as a company and after it was a company. The MARBLE KING on the box was for Berry Pink not the Marble King company. These boxes also have the crown on them. Berry Pink liked the crown and being called the MARBLE KING. There are a few pictures of him wearing a crown while promoting marbles with children. A original bag or box set with MARBLE KING on it does not mean it has actual Marble King company marbles packaged in it. It can have Marble King company marbles or other companies marbles.

Those are a HOOT !

I would have it with Heaton or Cairo.

I think it is Jabo.