psia-antique Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No he does not. Most are remelted. The whole area behind the plant is on concrete so not many get away. Those that do probably go "over the edge" behind the concrete. There is an urban ledgend that there is a JABO dump site in/around Parkersburg, but that story is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Peltier used many of his own machines a lot of his own glass and designed the feeders sorters and the nozzles that made the patterns, These were multiple stream feeders and very complicated machinery. He also made Aventurine glass. Jabo uses old machinery designed and made by other folks and glass made by other folks. Nothing even close to comparing IMHO. I am sure Dave appreciates some folks elevating him to the status of these early guiniuses. Peace,Galen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouisCamp Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Galen; What need would there be to reinvent the wheel. If it's already there, no need to make new to do the same thing. I think that the patents are not part of the final outcome of the marbles themselves. Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 If it were not for the patents and machinery they would all still be hand made would they not. And Sellers feeders had much to do with the patterns on Peltiers. Peace,Galen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Galen, You never seem to be responsible for what you say, nor do you respond when proven wrong. I have proven to you that Dave did the crucible thing first, and the aventurine thing first. I still can't find in my notes in which year around 2000 DM was talking about multiple crucibles but I will. I will also tell you the first time he had a multiple crucible machine was when he was at Champion!!! Be this as it may, we were talking about pretty marbles not patents. Really all of these machines are dependent on MF Christensen's work to make them round. So all of us can dance around patents etc forever, but it proves nothing. Each is but a step in the improvement of the art of machine made marbles. Many known and uinknown people have each contributed in small ways to get the art and hobby where it is today. I, too, love the work of Peltier, Israel, Fiedler and collect them all. Their work does not make McCoullough's better or worse. They are all beautiful and each deserves to be recognised as such. When people use micro economics 101 to choose how they spend their money, they have not hurt the value or prettiness of older pieces. Those people have chosen in a "guns and butter" sense to apply their dollar votes to buy what they deem to be pretty, not what you think they should buy. The seller of any marble cannot make someone else buy it. The buyer and only the buyer can make that decision. Why not use your vast knowledge for good? Why not be happy for the hobby in general that JABO and David get some recognition in a piece that is not in the main line of marble collecting? The Poor Richard's Almanac piece was/is great for the hobby. Admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I do not believe Dave is an artist. I do believe he has done some great work. I also believe there are many other folks that contributed a lot more to machine made marbles than he has. I will agree that article may have done a little for Jabo sellers on Ebay. I am OK with you not feeling the way I do. Please don't expect me to see things the way you do. Peace,Galen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdesousa Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 The newer Jabos are not made as playing marbles. Comparing them to earlier machine made marbles is like comparing toy guns to real guns. Sure, a plastic water pistol can be made a whole lot prettier than a Smith & Wesson, but what's the point of comparing them? The only attributes worth comparing between a collectors' Jabo and a glass toy marble is: 1. Roundness 2. Quality of glass 3. How much money can be made Jabo's don't win in the first two categories. Anyone have figures for the last category? Hansel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 aah! Under read grasshopper, I will tell you the facts. The first aventurine/ mica marble made by Dave was made in 1997 so you and your friends would be wrong on that count. The multiple crucible idea is something that is documented in the notes and manuscript of a book that was finished before 2002 and will be published this year so you would be wrong on that count also. I will look through the manuscript for an exact date if you need it. Be careful to whom you listen as your sources seem to lead you astray regularlly. Steve,I am suprised to find out jabo had aventurine marble runs prior to the 2004 superman run,or are we talking about a single marble? I would like to see pictures of these 1997 aventurine marbles.Do they have a name?I include pictures of what I beleive are from the first Jabo aventurine run,superman 2004. On the crucible idea and time frame, let me say I have been thinking about space travel and wrote stories about space travel as early as 1959 . But I have not built a space craft yet . I say if a man is limited by his tools let him build better tools .Steve I need to see pictures.Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstmmrbls Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 WOW! Looks like I may not be the only one that feels like I do. (LOLSHIPMP) peace,Galen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duffy Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 i saw some marbles made at jabo prior to the superman run that showed aventurine or mica ....daves got em in his office....i dont think they poured tons of it in but it was there....i could go back and ck some in my archives and see if i can find any ,,but im gettin ready to watch football...bo that was funny about the space craft but i didnt hafta pee in my trou...i can see where some would belittle a mans work but see no point in it...dave makes nice mibs and tries to do what the people want...an article written by somone ,not into marbles showed enthusiam for the hobby and got the idea across...im sure she didnt write it to be the subject of collectors who pick things apart like we do....but to get across the idea presented to her by the questions she asked...i could see where she would ask about where to get em and ebay was the answer.....a self promotion prob but who got hurt?? sure the experimentals are nice and pretty and show some things that are unique but to make fun of a guy [dave]thats put his whole working life into it is not very nice.... i could build a house with a hammer and nails or use a nail gun....the nail gun would win... i didnt invent it but i could pound a nail into a 2by4 with a rock... if you disagree with the marbles- fine just leave em and dave alone.....if you wanna use a rock to drive 16 penny nail -fine....everybody knows ca are the primo marbles and that certain people like pelts and worship the plant on ottawa...but jabos are jabos....take em or leave em....not intended to be a personal attack on anybody but come-on get real....dave would prob give ya some marbles if ya asked him.....maybe one of the experimentals not connected to any experimental runs......in closing steelers 27-ravens 17.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Galen, I think you're being obnoxious. Bo is essentially saying the same things, not quite, but in a positive way. He isn't offending anyone. You are being offensive. We all know your opinion. We know it well. You have expressed it many, many times. Why do you need to keep raining on everything positive said about David or JABO? This board is to have fun. Marbles are fun. Let the JABO lovers have their fun without your obnoxious comments. Remember, the day might come when someone ridicules everything you post about anything. You are wearing out your welcome and damaging your reputation. Be a contributor to the fun, not a constant nag repeating the same old arguments and never accepting the evidence that disproves your remarks. Steve, Edna, and all the other JABO enthusiasts love other marbles also. We don't "down" anybody's marbles or favorite artists. If you don't want to read the posts about JABO - the solution is simple, READ THE TITLE AND SKIP THAT ONE. This board is for marble lovers. We post about what we like. We don't all have to agree, but we do need to be respectful to each other. Your remarks are taunting and disrespectful to everyone who loves JABO and respects David M., but especially so to Steve S. Steve does have pics of the first goldstone marbles and he does have manuscript documents concerning the use of crucibles. He can prove that David used crucibles with single stream marble machines long before your friend thought of them and invented the process. If he posts that will you believe it? I hope so because he has the evidence. Let this be the last of the negative postings about JABO. I promise never to ridicule the marbles or artists you love. Never have, never will. Edna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 This is for Hansel. We have invested $1,000 in each of 3 runs. One of them is not done yet. I never thought of it as an investment. Doesn't an investment make money for you? On our first run, I sold enough marbles and hand made boxes to get my initial investment of $1,000 back. It did not cover my trip to Reno, Ohio - gas, meals, lodging. My most enjoyable time after that run was being able to give friends and other deserving people some beautiful marbles. I like making people smile. Maybe in years to come those Tributes will earn me some money, but I think it will probably happen in my grandson's life time, not mine. I haven't sold a single Tribute Last Dance. Haven't been to a marble show since that run. I have made 100 boxes which I will sell along with the marbles, but I give away as many as I sell. So my second investment of $1,000 has not seen any replacement. When Galen talks about "for profit" and the "big bucks" we are making, I find that offensive. Weldon and I do it for the fun of it. We love being at the factory, spending time with friends like Dave, Bill, Ron, David T., Debbie, Elizabeth, Steve, Steve P., Howard and Julia P., etc. etc. etc. We love giving marbles away. We do believe they will appreciate in value over time, but not our life time. Hansel, I hope that's what you wanted to hear. This is an honest report. Edna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Bo, Obviously you spoke before you read. Please go back and read post 30 and you will find 2 very specific answers in the first paragrqaph that end the multiple crucible issue forever. David's first multiple crucible machine was at Champion! He was at Champion prior to 1991. As for the mica/ aventurine marbles, we wrote about them and pictured them in our second book so if you want the specific information, you now know where to find it.They were both 5/8 and nearly 1". They do have a name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mibcapper Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 maybe something good can be said about this ..... without the personality conflicts .. :cool sign: :Cool_049: bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 That is one beautiful marble. Isn't it neat that batch glass for those is in our Last Dance marbles? Edna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I am not belittling Daves' work.I am sharing an objective veiwpoint.You nice people are too close /invested to Dave to be objective.I can be,because I don't know Dave or you.But now that these claims are made,collectors will make there opions known.A word about balance,as an artist it's important to cover the entire canvas.I look for marbles that are covered equally,all around beautiful,360 degrees.Many Jabo's have color/pattern on one side only.So in closing my favorite Jabo's are examples that have balance,I also like the cyclones /cobras.They are oxblood swirl in clear glass with aventurine.I especially like these because there is no buttcrack.I am really glad to own some Jabo Aces,they are beautiful marbles.These are some of the finest marbles in my collection bar none.But to say jabo makes the finest machine made marble is in my opion just not true.I'm not criticizing Dave,I'm only responding to Steve's claim.Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I'd like to represent the quiet people.... I've seen some new (and old) Jabos that are fabulous!! I can also agree with... Some jabo's I have seen have too much color,or the colors are ugly.But if you choose carfully good examples can be found as with all marble makers. I've often felt the colors were "muddy" or not well combined... Jabos simply (Usually) aren't my favorites. But, I do have some that I've hand picked and I love them... I REALLY love a particular box of the new runs that was sent to me!!! They're marbles and I collect marbles... How do they "Rate" in my collection?? I never thought about it. The ones I like, I like.... Some people really like the ones I don't like..... BFD..... Does it make sense to try and name a "Greatest Machine Made Marble Maker?" ........ Why? OK, I agree that the author kinda exaggerated in a few spots... But, ya know.... Did it hurt anyone?? I'm sure, if she thought it was going to be taken so seriously, she'd probably have given it a lot more thought!!! ............................... But, heck......... Who Knew?? I know there's a lot of people ridiculing those who are investing in these runs... Why?? What's it to ya?? Years ago, I used to walk by rooms at marble shows and snicker at those crazy people wading through piles of machine made marbles!!! ROFLMAO!!! They really thought those damn things were gonna be worth something some day!!!! :icon_lmao: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :doh: Well, wasn't that joke on me!! ?? !! So, Folks... You do what you please... Enjoy what you like.... And those who laugh?? Just remember, the laugh may be on you.... If your cool with that, keep laughing. If you know better, you can be like me...... quiet....... As far as the "Investment" of these runs?? I see it as.......... Participation = $$..... Transportation, Room & Board = $$$$..... Profit = $ The experience of watching marbles being made, while enjoying friends, helping to keep a few people employed for just a little while longer and being able to wade through marbles, looking for your VERY favorite, while knowing that you had a part in their making......... = PRICELESS!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No Bo, you are not being objective. This thread WAS about an article complimenting Dave's work. Period. No one who has posted had anything to do with the article. Galen changed the thread. As you missed reading post # 30 that answered your questions. I suggest you read post #1 so you know what thread was originally about. For the second time in this thread, I will say, I think the article was outstanding for all of our hobby. It is one of the few pieces outside of the hobby to talk about the hobby. Maybe because of it some new folks will start collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Steve you are wrong.I am talking about marbles not your friend Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sissydear Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 On the crucible idea and time frame, let me say I have been thinking about space travel and wrote stories about space travel as early as 1959 . But I have not built a space craft yet . I say if a man is limited by his tools let him build better tools .Steve I need to see pictures.Bo Attached thumbnail(s) Reduced 92% 1212 x 992 (237.37K) Sorry Bo, I took this post to be belittling to Dave. Dave did not think about building a crucible at Champion. He built it and used it. Two crucibles if I remember correctly. Since you don't know Dave, you are undoubtedly not aware that he is a very humble man. He doesn't brag about what he knows or what he's done. He's very quiet. He did all the things that some of the JOKER's claim for their invention or idea, most of it while still at Champion Agate. Dave used mica first, aventurine first, and crucibles first. The Joker's and all the other experimental runs simply paid for the materials Dave asked for. By the way, they were materials he was not allowed to use in any appreciable amounts in the classic runs because of the expense. That does not relate to not knowing how and learning from some person with no glass experience or machine made marble experience. Some people have claimed they were responsible for all the things Dave did. I'll say it again. ALL THEY DID THAT WAS DIFFERENT WAS FURNISH THE MONEY TO BUY WHAT DAVE WANTED TO WORK WITH. WITHOUT DAVID MCCULLOUGH THOSE MARBLES ARE NOT POSSIBLE. Edna// Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Bo, I am correct and you just proved it for me to yourself. This thread is about Dave McCullough and his work-an article about him and his work....not a marble discussion of the quality of his or any one else's. That came to thread when it was hijacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
migbar Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 The Mansion Run was somewhat different in that Dave was not in charge, Boyce was, and our marbles may have suffered for it, because we were not familiar with their furnace and machinery and methods, which are WAY different than Peltier's. mike b. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marboman Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Who hijacked it Steve? Why won't you tell me the name of the 1997 JABO aventurine marble? I anticipated you would say buy the book to find out,this whole thread reads like a commercial.I am waiting to see the unamed 1997 aventurine marbles.Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 No Bo, you are not being objective. This thread WAS about an article complimenting Dave's work. Period. No one who has posted had anything to do with the article. Galen changed the thread. Unless some posts were deleted Galen didn't turn it around. Mike expressed a dissenting opinion and Edna expressed an interest in hearing more about it. It's a different thread than it started out as. Galen didn't change the direction though. (unless I missed a deleted post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psia-antique Posted January 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Bo, You obviously don't really want the facts. If you doubt me, then do your own research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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