Reproductions And The Damage They Can Do??

[bigjohn691500]

a true definition of a hobbyist and not a profiteer griff,,, i used to sell just enough to pay off what i spent on the marbles,, sold a bunch when i ran into money problems, but dont believe i ever got what they were worth but i was ok with that because im the kind of guy who like selling mibs in groups and feels real guilty for turning a profit on a mib i know i only give a few bucks for, i just as soon give them away to freinds,, my grand daughter has her box grampa put together for her that would make most collectors scratch their heads and say,, why not sell them?,, lolol,, when you get one your kids or kids kids interested in what you do, you dont need to put a monetary amount on it because its priceless,, everytime she comes over she has a blast separating the colors, makes me happy and thats all that counts,,,,

[bumblebee]

I had my first good score recently. I had hardly ever found higher-end marbles in the wild like these and it seemed almost too good to be true. My gut told me they were the real deal, but by the time I was half way home I was totally paranoid and upset that I might have been taken with repros or remelts. It was a terrible feeling I could not shake. Had I been taken I would have quit the hobby for good. I don't think I enjoyed those marbles until days later.

Sure you can blame my inexperience, but the very fact that I had to worry like that proves in a sense that this hobby has been corrupted.

Add to that the avalanches of special runs and contemporary machinemades that even old timers get tricked on, and you have the makings for a hobby that is becoming too risky and too "dirty" for newcomers.

[William Marbles]

Toys & Hobbies Marbles Pre-1970 Machine Made

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lot-of-10-Marbles-Swirl-Agate-Christensen-Akro-Peltier-/111132206503?pt=Marbles&hash=item19dffee5a7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Marbles-9-Akro-Agate-Oxblood-Carnelian-3-4-7-8-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/400540449996?pt=Marbles&hash=item5d42123ccc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabo-classics-Various-runs-McCulloughs-last-runs-lot-of-80-HUGE-lot-3-4-/400540449729?pt=Marbles&hash=item5d42123bc1

this is just a small sample while I was looking this morning....

My two cents.. You see where these are listed under. Doesn't matter if you tell the seller. Over and over groups like this are available. Vintage, what a find, Rare, etc.....

And even better is when you eMail them and ask how old do you think they are....... Then the eMail stopper is when I ask them why they have these listed in the pre-1970 area.... no reply, business as usual.

I don't collect them and if I get them, they go into a jar by themselves to be sold as new/modern, not as vintage filler's. Cycle stops at my house. I wish I had a marble cannon to play with....still looking for that item.

I will say I'm very happy they are coating them with dust, lutz, copper, etc. dead giveaway to hit the 'next' button.

In 30 years I may change my mind. But today, I think these marbles are damaging the vintage market and you can't tell them or sellers what they really have and what the value of them is....they think they are 'gold'.

So I can't change minds or even help them with their item listing.

Maybe it's not the marbles...but the marketing of them I don't like.

[Gnome Punter]

I wonder how many folks that post here would have the involvement that they do with marbles if the were not making money from the hobby. I know I would. I do sell marbles at shows and to friends for more marble money but I must certainly agree marbles should never be looked at as any kind of monetary investment.

I have sold....maybe 200.00 in marbles in total,solely of those I do not collect. I have purchased around 3800.00 in the last 2 months.

I do not buy to flip. I buy to collect.

The down side is buying lots means I have thousands of this and thousands of that which I have o interest in and those will eventually be resold to recoup or offset,but not with the goal of profit.

I also do not see Jabo as being the reason for the decline.

I think old age is the reason and the lack of desire to motivate and involve younger people on a solid and continuous level.

[Killermarbles]

Can someone post a picture of some of the great jabo's?

I would like to see the ones that look so much like the vintage marbles.

Thanks Randy

[zaboo]

Toys & Hobbies Marbles Pre-1970 Machine Made

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Lot-of-10-Marbles-Swirl-Agate-Christensen-Akro-Peltier-/111132206503?pt=Marbles&hash=item19dffee5a7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Marbles-9-Akro-Agate-Oxblood-Carnelian-3-4-7-8-EXCELLENT-CONDITION-/400540449996?pt=Marbles&hash=item5d42123ccc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jabo-classics-Various-runs-McCulloughs-last-runs-lot-of-80-HUGE-lot-3-4-/400540449729?pt=Marbles&hash=item5d42123bc1

this is just a small sample while I was looking this morning....

My two cents.. You see where these are listed under. Doesn't matter if you tell the seller. Over and over groups like this are available. Vintage, what a find, Rare, etc.....

And even better is when you eMail them and ask how old do you think they are....... Then the eMail stopper is when I ask them why they have these listed in the pre-1970 area.... no reply, business as usual.

I don't collect them and if I get them, they go into a jar by themselves to be sold as new/modern, not as vintage filler's. Cycle stops at my house. I wish I had a marble cannon to play with....still looking for that item.

I will say I'm very happy they are coating them with dust, lutz, copper, etc. dead giveaway to hit the 'next' button.

In 30 years I may change my mind. But today, I think these marbles are damaging the vintage market and you can't tell them or sellers what they really have and what the value of them is....they think they are 'gold'.

So I can't change minds or even help them with their item listing.

Maybe it's not the marbles...but the marketing of them I don't like.

Our son has a fabulous old metal marble cannon.. ( a present from Raelyn Dolton) and it works GREAT!! LOL! Ya gotta get one!!

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Hi William,

I have to totaly agree with your last line in your post.

In those auctions,its the people misrepresenting marbles.

The marbles themselves misrepresent anything.

[1313]

Can someone post a picture of some of the great jabo's?

I would like to see the ones that look so much like the vintage marbles.

Thanks Randy

thats a good one randy. i say its almost impossible....................... ;0)

[sissydear]

People have been asked many times to post pics of the marbles that are look alikes deliberately done to misrepresent. No one has. The reason: there aren't any.

[Al Oregon]

There are some out there - maybe not in large quantities. You know that. Maybe experienced collectors who have seen all the Jabos can tell that they are Jabos but 90% of the collectors can't - even ones that collect the 'real' types of marbles. I have seen some that mimic the red, white & blue Alleys (or Champion) and other WV swirls (colors & patterns). Here are a few pics where the colors are close - would fool many a collector. These are Kevins from eBay.

[sissydear]

Here are some flames from the Tribute Legacy group. They don't look like Alley, Champion (high dollar collectors wouldn't care if they did) and they certainly don't look like CAC to me.

[sissydear]

We named these "Lawrence Alley Flames" to honor Mr. Alley's influence on the work of David McCullough. I don't know of any vintage that these replicate either.

[sissydear]

Galen posted one of these Sammy's saying it mimicked "Golden Rebels" I already posted theis once to show there is no black aventurine, only green. No red here, just orange, and the yellow color is off too. No intent to mimic here either.

[sissydear]

Here's the real deal. Pattern definitely not the same, color not the same. aventurine not the same. No copying done.

[sissydear]

Please post some side by side as I did. I don't think you will find a JABO or a Sammy that matches up with a vintage. On the other hand, some Alley's might fool a person. I don't think the Champions would fool anyone. And who would care? You big time collectors don't go for Alley's or Champions especially. They're cheap.

[Killermarbles]

Thanks for posting the pictures

I think the four flames look old. I personal never put much value in this type of flame (2 color)

Now if they looked like c/a flames that would be a problem but they don't, not to me anyways.

The other three pictures would not cause problem for me they don't look old, not even close.

Maybe if I saw them in person I would feel different.

I say let the jabo machine crank them out.

I am a hand made guy anyways.

Thank you for the pictures

Randy

[sissydear]

Here are some Alley flames. Show me one of those Al posted that mimics these. I don't see it.

'

More Alley's. Al's JABO's don't look like these.

The glass in the one's Al posted does not look old to me.

[sissydear]

I do collect Alley's and Champion Agate. I like them for the history especially. High dollar spenders would not be fooled by these "cheap" champions. I can't find any of these that Al's JABO's martch up with

These are Champion Agate new old fashions. Christmas trees and catsup and mustard. These will not match up with Peltier either.

[sissydear]

More Champion new old fashioneds.

Also Champions. If you have some that match Al's JABO's, EVEN I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM. PLEASE POST.

[manddrakes]

Jabo oxblood patches look almost spot on to Akro patches! Sorry I don't have an example at least I hope there's not one in my patch collection.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Are you refering to the test run we did on 5/8,,,with the stringy oxblood?

If so,Ill post some pictures of them.

[1313]

There are some out there - maybe not in large quantities. You know that. Maybe experienced collectors who have seen all the Jabos can tell that they are Jabos but 90% of the collectors can't - even ones that collect the 'real' types of marbles. I have seen some that mimic the red, white & blue Alleys (or Champion) and other WV swirls (colors & patterns). Here are a few pics where the colors are close - would fool many a collector. These are Kevins from eBay.

wouldnt these hold some value as flames????

[Bocci]

These are from the Ed Parson's furnace wash (June 10th, 2010).

Would these be what you are talking about?

[Bocci]

And what Scott said.

[clydetul62]

What is trying to get across is to the beginner to the middle collector. Not to the advance collector or to those involved in the runs. This is at least 90-95% of collectors. There is almost that same percentage that has nothing to do with any of the boards. No matter WHOSE board it is. I have talked to them on the phone and at shows. They dont want to be bothered.

I just recently helped sell an advanced collectors whole collection. In it there was 10 vacors that mimiced old. He didnt know they did to that extent. I keep reading that "it wouldnt fool me". Randy said he wouldnt take notice because they were 2 color. Plus he only does handmades. Edna, Griff, and a few others said no fooling them but they are investors and are involved in those runs all the time and have many examples to compare. They see them all the time and are familiar with more of the variation. Bumblebee said they never come across a score but recently they did. They worried the whole time until confirmed but that if they got burned they have would quit the hobby.

How many runs did Jabo do before '08 when the investor runs started cranking out? How many investor runs since then? How many total marbles combined? The old vintage companies did as a business as toys to be used and played with. Not to be immediately put away. How many of these have been packaged and sold as toys? Doing colors, patterns, glass, oxblood, AV, lutz, sprinkles and so on. They say they arent purposely trying to mimic vintage but a certain percentage will come out as a mimic. I have seen many times at shows as well as the bay of the mimics. Will they do damage? Of course! Coins, comic books, beanies, sports cards, hummel and so on and so on. I have been in at least a couple of these other hobbies at one point or another in my life. I have also seen most of them take a nose dive as well. Always because of either reproductions or over production.

How many threads has people started to try and get a discussion going as a learning tool but mud starts to sling very quickly and the learning stops. Just because some peoples opions differs from theirs. Most people dont know the back stories of the players. Most dont care. They just want to learn. This thread has gone 3 pages without much mud. These are the healthy types of mudless discussions that help not hinder the hobby. It doesnt matter who starts it.