Reproductions And The Damage They Can Do??

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Not everyone is cut out to be a marble collector.

There is more to identifying a marble than the colors,or the pattern.

The marbles are not the problem.They are only a mimmics to the uneducated.

You have to do the work,and have the mind for it.

Who says that marble collecting is only for marbles that were made as childrens toys?Got any contemporary handmades you wanna roll around in the dirt?

If being made as childrens toys,is what your collecting is about,thats fine,but you do not have the right to define why anyone else collects them.Most people I know that collect them,go for what is "pretty" to them.People have their own motivation for collecting.Its been my experiance that if the motivation is money,its the wrong "buisness" to be in.

Hey Clyde,,,define the "damage" you are refering too.

If its something other than money,Id like to know what it is.

While your at it,define reproduction,because I have not seen 1 marble from Jabo or Sammy's that I would consider a reproduction,by my definition.Look similar,yes,reproduction,absolutly not.

There are more marble collectors today than there ever has been,and its not because of any peltier,christensen,marble king,alley,champion,or vitro.Vacor,Jabo and Sammys Mountain marbles have created more interest in the hobby.Its not a debatable or deniable statement.

There is no mud in this post,so dont mis interpret it into something its not.

[mon]

It's good to know that all involved in these private runs are in it to spread the love. Also, good to know all the stories of hiding mibs, cheating, shorting, overcharging and behind the back plotting were not motivated by money.

If the risk of being duped increases.....that's good?

[m!b$]

The Jabos in post #35 do look alot like Alley Flames from the one view that is shown, but I bet other views of those same marbles would give them away.

[zaboo]

FWIW... maybe it's a difference in demographics, but we have seen no interest in the jabos at our shows. There was a couple people having them for sale, but I saw no one buying them. In fact the feedback we got was collectors were frustrated of the influx of so many. And dismay from several newer collectors on buying something they thought was old at an over inflated price. We had several new collectors at the Seattle show a couple weeks back, and they didn't want jabos, they wanted old. and a couple even asked for help in buying so as to not buy something mis-represented.Do some of them look like mimics? We got a marble from marble Alan that was a jabo sold as an alley. It fooled him!

and I don't think anyone should be an Einstein to be able to collect marbles. It shouldn't be rocket science.

In a historical view, what has the production of so many mimics done to the hobby? We have seen it divide people, collectors and generate ill will in many cases.

There really isn't any historical significance in making a 'made for collectible' collectible. Look at the beenie babies, and look at what they're worth now.

in the beginning of the runs, I believe that people enjoyed seeing how a marble was made, having a hand in it was fun and educational to them. The jabos were a larger size, and unmistakable as to what they were. and yeah, people grabbed them because they were 'pretty', and they were very pretty. But this has taken a turn...

and why do many of the people that now sell these on ebay have them listed in the vintage categories? and know full well they are not vintage.

a few years back we posted about getting duped on an akro looking oxblood, and got slammed by a few on this board. that was before the newer mimics folks. when all we wanted to do was educate. fact is, after speaking directly with one of the original makers about this marble, we also found out that bottles of them were sent to a couple different auction houses and auctioned off, infiltrating old right from the get-go. motivation? making a buck.

this is only our opinion, some can agree, other disagree. it is what it is.

Ernie & Dani

[Gnome Punter]

FWIW... maybe it's a difference in demographics, but we have seen no interest in the jabos at our shows. There was a couple people having them for sale, but I saw no one buying them. In fact the feedback we got was collectors were frustrated of the influx of so many.

I really dislike Jabos and Sammys myself.

There are no "normal" marbles released to make the WILD one's worth buying. You chase the wild one's for color variation or pattern, but every marble that comes out is a .20 marble right off the bat.

Just too much out there with too many colors and nothing to make any of it rare or collectible to myself.

[Gnome Punter]

These are from the Ed Parson's furnace wash (June 10th, 2010).

Would these be what you are talking about?

I am not seeing "Spot on" here

BUT

I will add these look better than most Jabos or sammys.

Swirl to the green or less ox and they would be beautiful.

Jabo and Sammy's, TO ME, are just "too much" or "over the top"

I have some Joker II marbles and some Indian summer and at 1.00 a pop I feel I over payed simply based on how common they are and how similar they all look.

[ann]

wouldnt these hold some value as flames????

I think so. They're nice flames. And I'd bet they are from that crazy pee wee run . . . if so, the size would have taken them out of the vintage category for most collectors, even if they had been misrepresented.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

And yet,we have all mis identified one vintage marble for another.

How many years have there been alley's and European flames in someone christensen case?

Vitro's mistaken for peltiers.

Champions misidentified as christensen.

Marble kings as pelts,,,,ect ect ect,,,,,

"Values"(refering to money),have been migrating since Ive been into marbles.

Use to be able to by machine mades for chump change,and if you had a black banded lutz,it was a diamond.

Believe it or not,there was actualy people,wanting benningtons,and clays.

I remember all the hard core handmade collectors,moaning about how no

one was buying them at a premium any more,because of the new interest in the machine mades.

Those days are in the past.

Time marches on.

You know,if Sammy's or Jabo wanted to make mimmics,it would be done,and its obvious to me that it has not.

At least on the east coast,Im seeing people getting interested in the vintage marbles,AFTER they have been introduced to the newer marbles.There have been a lot of people,wanting to know what good books they should buy,to get started.

Maybe Bob Block can offer something about his book sales,being steady as testimony.Or not,I dont KNOW.

It's good to know that all involved in these private runs are in it to spread the love. Also, good to know all the stories of hiding mibs, cheating, shorting, overcharging and behind the back plotting were not motivated by money.

If the risk of being duped increases.....that's good?

Yep,when there is money involved,there are bound to be those type of people.Doesnt mean everyone is like that.I speak for myself,and am aware of the "others".Thanks for the heads up,anyway,,,,,,LOL

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Oh yeah,those tank wash marbles,,,I dont recall any akro with the lime green and violet,not to mention the milky looking white.Patterns all wrong too.

Of course,Im aware of there existance.

That would be part of my marble education,and Im no rocket scientist.

Yeah,ok,,,,let loose on that one!---LOL

[ann]

And yet,we have all mis identified one vintage marble for another.

How many years have there been alley's and European flames in someone christensen case?

Or German machine-made slags in the Christensen slag corner of the box . . .

[sissydear]

It's good to know that all involved in these private runs are in it to spread the love. Also, good to know all the stories of hiding mibs, cheating, shorting, overcharging and behind the back plotting were not motivated by money.

If the risk of being duped increases.....that's good?

Choose your friends well. Those things you mention did happen. Investors learn and move away from it. You can find crooks in all walks of life. Sorry to say, there are some in marbles too. Don't let the crooks spoil it for you.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Yep,Ann,your spot on with those slags.

Its just like Hardy's misidentifying alley thumb pots as akro,for years.

Then knowledge came along,,,,,,,,,

There will always be deceptive people.Im not gonna place the blame on the marbles.

Through out marble history,there has always been some overlap,and without looking into my crystal ball,Ill assume it will continue as long as marbles are being made.

I think today is tommorows history,,,,,,,

[manddrakes]

These are from the Ed Parson's furnace wash (June 10th, 2010).

Would these be what you are talking about?

No... Sorry for the slow responds you all. Its been a little crazy on my end. Not to long ago someone was selling one on the bay. It looked 100% Akro oxblood patch, so I posted it here to get some feedback. The pictures are no longer available to the auction, but here's the discussion we had. http://marbleconnection.com/topic/18041-jabo-looking-like-akro-agate-patches/ I has told it would be easy to fake them with both flow and screw speed.

[BobBlock]

At least on the east coast,Im seeing people getting interested in the vintage marbles,AFTER they have been introduced to the newer marbles.There have been a lot of people,wanting to know what good books they should buy,to get started.

Maybe Bob Block can offer something about his book sales,being steady as testimony.Or not,I dont KNOW.

The Price Guide has consistently been ranked somewhere between #2 and #5 in Amazon's antique and collectible toy category since it came out. It can never seem to knock the Star Wars Lego book out of #1. Go figure. My kids like Star Wars and Legos better than marbles as well, so no surprise there. Occasionally, Marble Mania will inch it's way up into the #15 spot. I don't get the royalty statements from Schiffer, the royalties go to the MCSA, so I don't know how many have been sold. I think the initial run was 5,000 and I'm pretty sure he is well into the 3rd printing now, maybe the 4th. Make of that what you will, but it definitely indicates that people are interested in marbles, and most of my book sales on Ebay are to people I have not dealt with before, so I figure they are newbies.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Thanks for the info Bob.

I can guarantee,at a minimum,a couple dozen ARE from newby's that have progressed from buying a couple of Jabo's or Sammy's,to having interest in the vintage marbles.I can also guarantee that some have progressed into buying vintage marbles.

This is not speculation.

Cant wait for some new books that will be comming out on Jabo's and Sammys'.

[FISHSLAYERMARRBLEGRIFF]

Still waiting for Clyde to give his definition of "damage" and "reproduction".

[Steph]

Somewhere I'm pretty sure I have a Jabo milky oxblood. If someone will remind me where I put it, I'll try to post a pic.

[William Marbles]

..... Cant wait for some new books that will be comming out on Jabo's and Sammys'.

I agree, would love to see the price guide on size and condition!!!

[Mike]

Somewhere I'm pretty sure I have a Jabo milky oxblood. If someone will remind me where I put it, I'll try to post a pic.

Steph,

If that is the one you got from me, it is a great one. Hope you find it for all to see. Mike

[Al Oregon]

The flames were the peewee run but my point was that many collectors would buy those as old - forget the value or # of colors, it's still a marble that looks like it is old (to 90% of the collectors). Forget that the experts know all of the color combos of Alley, CA and Champion flames (really?), 95% of collectors don't. Sure, we can talk about learning and being careful and getting advice and I agree with all those posts. I thought the question that Edna asked about whether there are Jabos that look like old marbles was the reason for my post. I don't have those marbles to post side by side - maybe someone will come out with a book (or even a website) that does that. Here are some more Jabo pics that, with an individual marble, would make collectors think of an old marble.

[sissydear]

Al, your last pic from that one view would fool me into thinking it might be a Vitro Agate "wedding cake". The green color isn't quite right, but maybe. The middle photo might make me think it's Champion. I would definitely know from the clear areas that Dave M. made it, so that means Champion or JABO. I am very familiar with the Alley Agate green, oxblood, on white base. It has no clear areas. A lot of oxblood has been used since 2008 so folks interested in marbles should be aware that oxblood does not mean old.

Pic # 1 is not collectable to me if it's vintage or new.

[sissydear]

these are Vitro Agate "Wedding Cakes". Sorry I don't have a green one.

[Ric]

I do collect Alley's and Champion Agate. I like them for the history especially. High dollar spenders would not be fooled by these "cheap" champions. I can't find any of these that Al's JABO's martch up with

Edna, I'm a little confused by this post. Why did you start off with JABOs?

[Steph]

Steph,

If that is the one you got from me, it is a great one. Hope you find it for all to see. Mike

Yep, that's the one. Now if you wouldn't mind telling me which box I put it in .....

[machinemades]

Just because Christensen, Alley, Champion, Cairo, Heaton, Ravenswood, Vitro and Peltier produced at some time Flame type marbles, does that mean no one else can produce marbles with a flame pattern? My question is a bit tongue in cheek, but I am not with the opinion that new flame marbles are any threat to marble collecting hobby. There may be couple blue, red white marbles that might look like a Christensen, but with a little bit of attention I am sure they can be separeted from Christensens. I do not agree the new modern marbles are any threat to collecting. In 80 to 100 years they will be antique and Christensens, Peltiers and Akros etc. will be early machinemades. It will be up to serious collectors, books and expert appraisers to value these items. Today the new marbles serve for newcomers to enter the hobby as an affordable way of introduction, which will serve to move to later serious collecting arena. There will be problems along the way. People will be fooled, waist money, but who in the hobby hasn't? If i make a wrong purchase and quit the hobby because of that, I would have not lasted very long for another reason any way. Collectors come in and go all the time. Some will stick, be a long term collector and become an asset to the hobby one way or another. I am all for discussing these issues and recommend all collectors to serve the hobby at one point rather than be always on the hunt, add better marbles into the collection, and make money along the way.